| Topic: | Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Average bus speeds fall below 9mph | |
| Posted by: | Andrew Jones | |
| Date/Time: | 12/01/26 17:00:00 |
| No umbrage taken David about not being cc'd, but you often say LBHF state things or told you this and that and it's only on querying that context comes out especially whether it was publicly stated or privately stated. We go round in circles about the time plate that used to be in Beadon St. I'll refer you to what you wrote originally: "Mark then said the appropriate signage was a half mile away. He then also directed me to signs on Glenthorne which is down the hill and around the corner. His colleague repeated his words. Me being me, I counted the signs on Glenthorne. Sixteen. All stipulating site-specific conditions. I asked Mark why he's telling me to reference signs when the sign with the information that was there was removed as opposed to updated which it should have been. They have been issuing tickets relentlessly. It is now a revenue trap. Change the CPZ all you want. But you must inform the public in a way that the council itself has demonstrated. A reasonable expectation that, as on all adjacent streets, site-specific signage will inform effectively, easily, fairly, openly. Sixteen signs versus zero. Sorry, the computer says no." The 'appropriate signage' is the CPZ Entry signs. Did Mark make that clear to you? The site-specific signs in Glenthorne Road have got nothing to do with whether you can park on Beadon Road legally. The only reason there are site-specific signs elsewhere are because the restrictions there apply at different times to the default zone restriction times. You still haven't ( as far as I remember) said what the various LBHF personnel said to you about what relevence the time plates in Glenthorne Road have in connection with whether you can or can't park in Beadon Road. So, once again, what exactly did LBHF say about the time plates in Glenthorne Road when they referred/directed you to them? I've asked you this multiple of times but never got an actual answer when you've responded. You said they (council representatives) were confused. How so? You said they couldn't sort out their own crap. You say other people told you they were "fobbed off". You said "They repeatedly point to a sign saying the sign applies until such time as they decide that maybe it doesn't." Once again, what did LBHF actually say when they referred/directed you to/mentioned the time plates? The highway code ( https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-markings.html ) informs people what waiting restrictions yellow lines have: "Double yellow lines mean no waiting at any time, unless there are signs that specifically indicate seasonal restrictions. The times at which the restrictions apply for other road markings are shown on nearby plates or on entry signs to controlled parking zones. If no days are shown on the signs, the restrictions are in force every day including Sundays and Bank Holidays." Is that what you mean when you say "They repeatedly point to a sign saying the sign applies until such time as they decide that maybe it doesn't."? Is it simply that they are trying to explain what the highway code says? You called it exploitation. I call it the council issuing PCNs correctly somewhere where the restrictions have changed. When you parked on Beadon Road a month or so back you parked in contravention of the restrictions that now apply there. You didn't realise it, and that's totally understandable given that you have been parking there legally for years and hadn't realised that the restrictions had changed. It would have been better all round if the council had put up a sign where the time plate had been advising that restrictions had changed to save you and everyone else the hassle of having to try and get a correctly issued PCN cancelled - I totally agree with that, but you are just assuming that the sign was removed to entrap people like you. You've no evidence for this. You just jump to this conclusion because you got issued a PCN and all of a sudden the council are out to get you. I've shown you an example of where the council have been trying to inform people and warn them of restrictions that have come in, rather than enforcing them from day 1. Here's another example - there's a school street near where I live where again the council sent out warning letters before starting to enforce the moving traffic restrictions ( and when they did start to enforce them, they quickly found out that the signage was inadequate and installed additional advance warning signage). "To me, that has the stench of a money grab. Certainly the people I've spoken to who received PCNs agree." - well that's not exactly surprising - you (and some of them) made an understandable mistake and are peeved about receiving a PCN, and probably don't feel best disposed to the organisation that has issued you with a PCN. I went to a driver awareness course many years ago and it was laughable how some people said they were victims of entrapment because a police officer they hadn't seen suddenly appeared out of nowhere and stopped them because they were on their phone while driving. I'm sure I would feel very annoyed if I strayed into an LTN I wasn't entitled to be in, but if you don't actually fine anyone how are you going to expect the restrictions to be adhered to. Yes it would be counterintuitive that less signage sometimes means you have more restrictions, but I disagee with you that things are vague. The highway code makes it crystal clear how to know what the restrrictions on Beadon Road are. There's a yellow line. There's no time plate. The enforceable restriction is therefore the times on the signs at the entry to the CPZ Zone. It ( CPZ Zone Entry times determining yellow line restrictions) has been like that for many, many years. I know it's been like that for many many years because I've had to write letters to councils explaining this very point to them when appealing against a PCN that was correctly issued ( from their point of view, and I agreed with them) but which was unenforceable given my particular circumstances. Penalize for the obvious you say. Well as I've asked you at least twice ( and you haven't answered) already - Would you just park on a yellow line with no signs next to it in a CPZ in London on a Friday at 4pm if you weren't sure whether you could park there? Well, to me the obvious thing is that you can no longer guarantee that yellow lines are free to park on, at the weekends. I park in Westminster a fair amount. Very few yellow lines there have time plates - there might be some somewhere I'm sure. I know I can park on a Sunday all day, I know I can't park between 08:30-18:30 Mon to Sat. Should someone be penalised for parking on a yellow line at 4pm on a Saturday in westminster David? You tell me. I'm aware of the highway code, I know the rules, it's obvious to me that I can't park there because I pay attention when I'm driving somewhere. If I was driving to anywhere like Beadon Road ( but somewhere I'd never been before) where perhaps there might once have been a sign, but now there was no sign, I'd be asking myself what were the entry times of the CPZ I'm in before parking there. I've never thought of you as one of those "god-given" right drivers by the way. And, I partially agree with you. "LBHF could have easily simply said, oh yes, we see your point, understandable mistake and on this occasion we will waive it." Councils can be very abrupt in their communications and intransigent. I remember Hackney repeated ignoring my points and reiterating the mantra it is up to the driver to park in accordance to the restrictions in place. I totally agreed with them and pointed out that it was up to the council to ensure that the restrictions were correctly signed at entrances to the CPZ. It really pissed me off that they didn't seem to be willing to answer any of the points I was making. In the end, I just said I was taking it to appeal, and Hackney dropped it before it was heard. I am genuinely surprised why you should have had such a hard time in getting your PCN cancelled at LBHF's discretion given you were used to parking there regularly. I presume that you parked there a week or two previously and no PCN was isued. I take your point about being told you were consulted when you weren't, and if, as you say, they said everyone had been consulted, they should have accepted your say so on that. |