Forum Message

Topic: Re:Reply
Posted by: Al Webber
Date/Time: 24/02/20 10:07:00

Autonomous cars use GPS for navigation, but they have sensors (radar, lidar) to detect objects in their path.  One of the big obstacles they are facing is the detection range at motorway speeds.  Given that stopping distances are a LOT longer for trains, and that these systems can't see around corners in tunnels, these systems are a non-starter for the Underground.

Driverless trains are coming eventually.  Even now, on 4 Tube lines, the drivers just close the doors, and are essentially there to cope with an emergency.  The sub-surface lines are in the process of being switched over.

New trains on the Underground will be delivered with cabs, so they can run on the current signalling system, but I believe that there is a desire that they are designed so that the cab could be removed eventually to make more space for passengers.  I think current plans would have a DLR style train captain on board.

However, GPS and basic WiFi is not the answer.  These systems work with dedicated transponders by the side of the track, so they are much more robust.  It's a closed system for security reasons.  There has to be absolutely zero chance of terrorists being able to hack it.  It will not rely on publically available Wifi and GPS.

Even then, the problems are not so much with the transponders and knowing where the train is, but with the software.  The software has to be absolutely robust and failsafe.

Autonomous cars won't be perfect, but if they reduce accident rates by 75%, they will be a huge success.  Railways work to a much higher standard of safety.  Accidents have to be zero.  No-one will take any chances.  It's more like the aviation industry used to be before Boeing started cutting corners.  It's all that stuff about how the software handles it when a sensor goes down, or gives bad readings.  That's not simple to do - and would need doing even with your "solution".  It's the software that is delaying Crossrail - not the detection systems.

It's the software that is the big issue with any system.  Writing software from scratch for what you want to do would be an absolute non-starter - especially with the complications of integrating with ancient system elsewhere on the line.  Writing that software would be a much bigger, and more expensive job than the software for the new system will be.  At least that's based on technology and systems already in place elsewhere, and you don't have to write it from scratch.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 18:02:00 Paul Corcoran
   Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 18:30:00 Alastair Banton
      Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 18:53:00 Michael Robinson
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 19:18:00 Gordon McDonald
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green07/02/20 12:36:00 Basil Finnis
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 19:21:00 Alastair Banton
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 19:26:00 Alastair Banton
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 21:47:00 Caroline Carrington
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green06/02/20 22:15:00 James Carter
                     PiccaDist06/02/20 22:59:00 Michael Robinson
                        Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 11:33:00 Paul Corcoran
                           Re:Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 13:02:00 Michael Robinson
                           Re:Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 15:02:00 Al Webber
                              Re:Re:Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 15:36:00 Michael Robinson
                        Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 15:05:00 Al Webber
                        Re:PiccaDist07/02/20 20:14:00 Claire Moran
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green07/02/20 22:43:00 Caroline Carrington
      Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 02:54:00 Joanna Biddolph
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 08:21:00 Alastair Banton
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 10:26:00 Paul Corcoran
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 13:22:00 Al Webber
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 14:17:00 Dan Evans
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 14:39:00 Michael Robinson
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 14:18:00 Michael Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 14:58:00 Richard Cunningham
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green08/02/20 15:35:00 Michael Robinson
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green09/02/20 22:26:00 Marlene Johnson
   Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green09/02/20 08:54:00 Graham Bird
      Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green09/02/20 11:53:00 Steve Taylor
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green09/02/20 15:27:00 Marlene Johnson
            Reply09/02/20 15:59:00 Carl Wynne
      Reply09/02/20 16:03:00 Carl Wynne
      Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green10/02/20 01:12:00 Peter Mielewczyk
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green10/02/20 08:48:00 Michael Robinson
         Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green10/02/20 08:50:00 Al Webber
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green10/02/20 10:02:00 Catherine Griffiths
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green11/02/20 08:22:00 Francis Rowe
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green11/02/20 19:48:00 Richard Jennings
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green12/02/20 08:04:00 Dan Evans
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green12/02/20 10:18:00 Francis Rowe
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green12/02/20 10:36:00 Gordon McDonald
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green12/02/20 11:59:00 Francis Rowe
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green12/02/20 13:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green13/02/20 09:15:00 Francis Rowe
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green13/02/20 10:37:00 Michael Robinson
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green13/02/20 10:59:00 Al Webber
                                       Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green13/02/20 19:07:00 Richard Cathcart
                                          Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green13/02/20 19:19:00 Michael Robinson
                                             Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green14/02/20 14:49:00 Dan Evans
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green14/02/20 15:46:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green14/02/20 15:46:00 Michael Robinson
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 11:38:00 Francis Rowe
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 12:55:00 Michael Robinson
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 15:36:00 Francis Rowe
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 17:52:00 Michael Robinson
                                                               Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 19:21:00 Richard Jennings
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green15/02/20 18:19:00 Al Webber
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green16/02/20 16:46:00 Dan Evans
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Mike Brown's Longing for a Piccadilly Line Stop at Turnham Green16/02/20 17:22:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                     Reply17/02/20 15:14:00 Kevin Howard
                                                                        Re:Reply17/02/20 16:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                           Reply17/02/20 16:18:00 Kevin Howard
                                                                              Re:Reply17/02/20 19:12:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                 Re:Re:Reply17/02/20 19:56:00 Gordon McDonald
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 08:17:00 Paul Corcoran
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 08:53:00 Al Webber
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 11:07:00 Paul Corcoran
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 11:55:00 Al Webber
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 15:22:00 Paul Corcoran
                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 15:40:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 11:36:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 13:00:00 Dan Evans
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply21/02/20 14:13:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                                Reply24/02/20 09:04:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                                                                   Re:Reply24/02/20 09:52:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                                   Re:Reply24/02/20 09:53:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                                                   Re:Reply24/02/20 10:07:00 Al Webber

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