Forum Message

Topic: So what?
Posted by: Thomas Barry
Date/Time: 26/04/12 18:03:00

"It may not be a double dip recession after all say leading economists"

As I said earlier and you're strangely enough not addressing, it doesn't matter if it's technically a double dip or not, what matters is that the OBR and thus the Treasury and thus the entire government have for the last two years been making and relying on predictions for growth that turn out to bear no resemblance to reality. We've clearly either shrunk or stayed precisely flat during the last two years, with the result that, as leading economists who haven't drunk the same austerity Kool-Aid as George Osborne predicted we're on our way to a 'lost decade' of zero growth and stagnation.

Here are the OBR's historical predictions for this year's GDP growth:

June 2010 - 2.8%
March 2011 - 2.5%
March 2012 - 0.8%

Doesn't that ring any alarm bells at all?  At the Bodget, sorry, Budget, the Chancellor was working off these predictions for 2012:

Q1 0.3% (currently -0.2%, so it's going to have to be a heck of a revision to get it back on track, isn't it, David?)
Q2 0.0%
Q3 0.6%
Q4 0.3%

That's a) already optimistic and b) atrocious at this stage in what should be an economic recovery.

We're not the only country to have a lost decade, as Japan has gone through this already - the problem for George and the Tories is that with a clear example in front of them of why it wouldn't work they chose the deficit reduction above all else path despite it being blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain that you can't reduce deficits with no growth and rising unemployment.

This is the problem with pretending that if you make the rich rich enough the money will 'trickle down' to the rest of us, it leads policymakers to ignore the fact that ordinary people spending money makes the economy go round and making them poorer eventually makes the economy stop going round.  The current prediction from the Mystic Megs at the OBR is that we won't see wages start to rise for another two years.  Care to guess what the consequences of that might be?

[figures from publicly available OBR documents, rather than selective quotation from right wing newspapers]


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
It's official: back in recession25/04/12 09:45:00 Susan Kelly
   Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 11:32:00 Claudia Jachtmann
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 12:12:00 Tim Outteridge
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 12:13:00 Keith Iddon
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:03:00 Claire Moran
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:31:00 Tim Outteridge
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:24:00 Edward Przepiora
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:28:00 Tim Outteridge
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 15:04:00 Roger Talbot
            It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 15:33:00 Claire Moran
                  Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:02:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:13:00 Edward Przepiora
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:18:00 Claire Moran
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 17:45:00 Birna Helgadottir
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 17:58:00 Keith Iddon
                                 We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 18:35:00 David Giles
                                    Re:We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 21:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                       Re:Re:We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 21:46:00 Keith Iddon
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 13:32:00 Pete Mayes
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 19:51:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 18:26:00 Jonathan Bingham
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 18:45:00 Claire Moran
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 20:10:00 Thomas Barry
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter28/05/12 00:43:00 Georgina Flint
                        Economics lesson for Edward26/04/12 18:52:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:27:00 Guy Lambert
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:35:00 Tim Outteridge
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:38:00 Keith Iddon
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 23:52:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 23:46:00 Thomas Barry
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 00:47:00 Edward Przepiora
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 01:11:00 Keith Iddon
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 07:51:00 Birna Helgadottir
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 12:35:00 John Smith
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 14:13:00 Pete Mayes
                                       It may not even be a fall of 0.2 % in GDP26/04/12 14:46:00 David Giles
                                          Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                             Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:49:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                                Re:Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:54:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 16:06:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                          It was actually -0.3%24/05/12 09:27:00 Thomas Barry
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 14:48:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                                    Spending your way out of a recession...it worked for Roosevelt, didn't it?26/04/12 14:43:00 David Giles
                                       It may not be a double dip recession after all say leading economists26/04/12 17:38:00 David Giles
                                          So what?26/04/12 18:03:00 Thomas Barry
                                             Re:So what?26/04/12 18:20:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                                                Re:Re:So what?26/04/12 18:43:00 Jonathan Bingham
                                                Re:Re:So what?26/04/12 22:10:00 Guy Lambert
                                                History lesson - Ireland/Spain/Argentina. Skip if facts worry you.27/04/12 11:35:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Income inequality and the 'small state'24/05/12 10:22:00 David McLoughlin
   Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 10:47:00 Stewart Dean
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:23:00 Thomas Barry
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:35:00 Stewart Dean
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:56:00 Susan Kelly
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:13:00 Jonathan Bingham
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:16:00 Susan Kelly
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:48:00 Stewart Dean
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:56:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 14:41:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 15:19:00 Susan Kelly
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 18:10:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 18:10:00 David McLoughlin
   Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 17:58:00 David Roberts
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 14:39:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 14:55:00 David Roberts
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 15:30:00 Claudia Jachtmann
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 15:59:00 Susan Kelly
               The Great Crash. 192927/05/12 20:44:00 Michael Sterne
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession27/05/12 22:28:00 Jonathan Bingham
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession28/05/12 06:35:00 William Beausire
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession28/05/12 06:40:00 Susan Kelly
                     Plus28/05/12 09:48:00 Susan Kelly

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