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Topic: It may not be a double dip recession after all say leading economists
Posted by: David Giles
Date/Time: 26/04/12 17:38:00

According to Philip Aldrick in the Daily Telegraph:

" Economists have been questioning the reliability of Office for National Statistics' (ONS) numbers for a while now, but the latest data drew the debate sharply into focus.

" At -0.2pc, the GDP reading was considerably worse than the consensus of 0.1pc growth. The "discrepancy", as Goldman Sachs' Kevin Daly described it, was "unbelievable" because much of the recent survey data – from the Bank of England's agents' reports to the purchasing managers' indices – have been encouraging. "

" Andrew Goodwin of the Ernst & Young ITEM Club agreed. "Our reaction is one of disbelief," he said. "The divergence is virtually unprecedented and must raise significant question marks over the quality of the data."

"They are not alone. No lesser institution than the Bank of England has queried the ONS data. Last week, minutes to the Monetary Policy Committee meeting damningly noted: "The sharp falls in construction output in December and January were perplexing, and the Committee was minded not to place much weight on them."

"The Bank already assumes the ONS data is inaccurate, producing its own "backcast" of growth estimates on which to build its economic policy models. However, last week's comments went further than usual. Pointedly, they related to construction data, over which there has been a row since the method of calculation was changed in early 2010.

"Perhaps not coincidentally, it was construction that plunged Britain into its first double-dip since 1975. The ONS claims the new construction figures are better than the old ones but still admitted there is "a tendency for upward revisions of between 1pc and 2pc".

" ONS first estimates of growth are notoriously inaccurate, largely because only 40pc of the data are available, with a margin for error of 0.2 percentage points. But even later estimates undergo remarkable changes.

"In 1991, then-Chancellor Norman Lamont was pilloried for suggesting he had spotted "green shoots". At the time, the country was thought to be in the midst of an agonising recession. Years later, that was revised away – showing Lord Lamont had been right.

" Last year, the ONS published a raft of revisions that revealed the economy had not shrunk 6.4pc in the recession, but by 7.1pc, and that the downturn had lasted three months less than thought. The changes were dramatic. Rather than contracting 0.4pc in the third quarter of 2009, it grew 0.2pc. "

Maybe it is too early to say.



Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
It's official: back in recession25/04/12 09:45:00 Susan Kelly
   Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 11:32:00 Claudia Jachtmann
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 12:12:00 Tim Outteridge
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 12:13:00 Keith Iddon
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:03:00 Claire Moran
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:31:00 Tim Outteridge
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:24:00 Edward Przepiora
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 14:28:00 Tim Outteridge
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/04/12 15:04:00 Roger Talbot
            It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 15:33:00 Claire Moran
                  Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:02:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:13:00 Edward Przepiora
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 16:18:00 Claire Moran
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 17:45:00 Birna Helgadottir
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 17:58:00 Keith Iddon
                                 We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 18:35:00 David Giles
                                    Re:We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 21:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                       Re:Re:We can't spend our way out of a recession25/04/12 21:46:00 Keith Iddon
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 13:32:00 Pete Mayes
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 19:51:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 18:26:00 Jonathan Bingham
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 18:45:00 Claire Moran
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 20:10:00 Thomas Barry
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter28/05/12 00:43:00 Georgina Flint
                        Economics lesson for Edward26/04/12 18:52:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:27:00 Guy Lambert
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:35:00 Tim Outteridge
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 20:38:00 Keith Iddon
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 23:52:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter25/04/12 23:46:00 Thomas Barry
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 00:47:00 Edward Przepiora
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 01:11:00 Keith Iddon
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 07:51:00 Birna Helgadottir
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 12:35:00 John Smith
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 14:13:00 Pete Mayes
                                       It may not even be a fall of 0.2 % in GDP26/04/12 14:46:00 David Giles
                                          Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                             Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:49:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                                Re:Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 15:54:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Giles grasps at straws26/04/12 16:06:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                          It was actually -0.3%24/05/12 09:27:00 Thomas Barry
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's more than just one quarter26/04/12 14:48:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                                    Spending your way out of a recession...it worked for Roosevelt, didn't it?26/04/12 14:43:00 David Giles
                                       It may not be a double dip recession after all say leading economists26/04/12 17:38:00 David Giles
                                          So what?26/04/12 18:03:00 Thomas Barry
                                             Re:So what?26/04/12 18:20:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                                                Re:Re:So what?26/04/12 18:43:00 Jonathan Bingham
                                                Re:Re:So what?26/04/12 22:10:00 Guy Lambert
                                                History lesson - Ireland/Spain/Argentina. Skip if facts worry you.27/04/12 11:35:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Income inequality and the 'small state'24/05/12 10:22:00 David McLoughlin
   Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 10:47:00 Stewart Dean
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:23:00 Thomas Barry
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:35:00 Stewart Dean
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:56:00 Susan Kelly
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:13:00 Jonathan Bingham
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:16:00 Susan Kelly
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 13:48:00 Stewart Dean
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 11:56:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 14:41:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 15:19:00 Susan Kelly
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 18:10:00 Thomas Barry
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 18:10:00 David McLoughlin
   Re:It's official: back in recession24/05/12 17:58:00 David Roberts
      Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 14:39:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 14:55:00 David Roberts
         Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 15:30:00 Claudia Jachtmann
            Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession25/05/12 15:59:00 Susan Kelly
               The Great Crash. 192927/05/12 20:44:00 Michael Sterne
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession27/05/12 22:28:00 Jonathan Bingham
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession28/05/12 06:35:00 William Beausire
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It's official: back in recession28/05/12 06:40:00 Susan Kelly
                     Plus28/05/12 09:48:00 Susan Kelly

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