Forum Message

Topic: Did you vote for this?
Posted by: Huw Burford-Taylor
Date/Time: 11/09/17 17:09:00

Here goes: why the Withdrawal Bill is a botched Bill, and why MPs should vote against it on second reading.

But first: the Bill is not about supporting or stopping Brexit - contrary to the statements of Field, Flint, etc.

Like winter, Brexit is coming.  The Article 50 notification has been made. UK is out on 29 March 2019 (or possibly a later agreed date).

Nothing in this Bill affects the Article 50 notification.  The will of the people has been expressed.

Statements like Field's thereby make no sense.  That decision has been made.

The Bill is about how the UK government gets to that outcome.  Means not end.  Journey not destination.

The Bill proposes three powers, the widest in modern constitutional history, to allow the government to legislate directly.

In effect, minister will be able to make, amend, and repeal law, by fiat.  To be mini-legislatures.

Clause 7(4): "Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament"

Clause 8(2): "Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament"

And Clause 9(2) is a beauty in how it goes even further than the last two quoted clauses.

"Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament (including modifying this Act)."

Let that sink in: "including modifying this Act". Think about the implication of that.

And what is "any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament"?

Like power of Green Lantern's ring, anything you can imagine.

"any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament" can mean: repealing and amending Acts, abolishing laws, rights, entitlements.

These three powers are considerable legal super-weapons.

Ministers become their own parliaments, law making and changing as they wish.

Yes the Bill offers some protections, and limitations, and time limits. But weak stuff against the legal super-powers created.

Article 50 has gone. Voting on today's Bill cannot stop that. Field and others explanations don't add up.

Today's Bill is about handing almost the entire legislative power of Westminster over to Whitehall, under the guise of Brexit.

The government does not need this near-absolute power of law-making for Brexit.  It does not need to usurp parliament.

And that is why MPs should vote so to tell government to think again on this anti-parliamentary Bill, while there is still time."

Above taken from David Allen Green's twitter feed.

Now, you might think this is all fine and dandy "ends justify the means" and all that, but if you're a Labour voter then the thought of the Conservatives having this sort of power should be anathema to you, if you're a Conservative then bear in mind all it takes are 5 conservative rebels to bring the government down and then the likelihood at the moment is that you'd be looking at best at a Labour led coalition with these powers, or a Labour majority government led by Corbyn & McDonnell wielding these instruments. If you voted leave did you vote for this? It's Parliament that's supposed to be sovereign, elected government's are supposed to be held to account. This is all about to be voted away. "Taking back control."




Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
March for Europe08/09/17 02:42:00 Urs Esser
   Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:02:00 Keith Iddon
      Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:28:00 Bradley Cheek
      Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:29:00 Gordon McDonald
         Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:30:00 Aubrey Crawley
            Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:35:00 Julian Pavey
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 08:49:00 Keith Iddon
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 09:08:00 Aubrey Crawley
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 09:10:00 Bradley Cheek
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 09:30:00 Paul Fisher
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 09:57:00 Nick Jenkins
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:05:00 Bradley Cheek
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:08:00 Aubrey Crawley
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:10:00 Paul Fisher
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:19:00 Julian Pavey
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:42:00 Aubrey Crawley
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:45:00 Bradley Cheek
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 16:52:00 Mike Chisholm
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 10:46:00 Paul Fisher
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 11:01:00 Bradley Cheek
                                          Re:March for Europe08/09/17 12:41:00 Bernard Allen
                                             Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 13:18:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 13:55:00 Colin Jordan
                                                Half baked08/09/17 14:04:00 Keith Iddon
                                                   Re:Half baked08/09/17 15:14:00 Ken Munn
                                                      Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 16:40:00 Alan Clark
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 17:02:00 Paul Fisher
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 17:16:00 Julian Pavey
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 17:22:00 Keith Iddon
                                                               Re:Half baked09/09/17 16:39:00 John Whitworth
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 23:17:00 Alan Clark
                                                      Re:Re:Half baked08/09/17 17:17:00 Keith Iddon
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 17:54:00 Ian Fillingham
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 18:28:00 Paul Fisher
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe08/09/17 18:41:00 Ian Fillingham
                                                Re:March for Europe08/09/17 18:50:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                   Re:Re:March for Europe09/09/17 02:48:00 Urs Esser
                                                      Re:Re:Re:March for Europe09/09/17 08:50:00 Alastair Banton
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 11:23:00 Keith Iddon
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 11:31:00 Ann Williams
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 11:40:00 Carl Wynne
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 11:45:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 13:25:00 Stuart Kerr
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 13:41:00 Brian Coyle
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 14:12:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 16:31:00 Ken Munn
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 16:44:00 Rima Jones
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 16:46:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 16:50:00 Adrian Irving
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 22:16:00 Claire Moran
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 22:39:00 John Connelly
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 22:44:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU09/09/17 22:50:00 Alan Clark
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 06:35:00 Gordon McDonald
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 11:24:00 Brian Coyle
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 11:43:00 Carl Wynne
                                                                                    Re:March for EU10/09/17 15:23:00 John Whitworth
                                                                                       Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 16:25:00 Ken Munn
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 18:59:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 19:00:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 19:46:00 Carl Wynne
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 19:47:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                                                   Re:March for EU10/09/17 20:04:00 John Whitworth
                                                                                                      Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 20:15:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 21:35:00 Ken Munn
                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 21:53:00 Alan Clark
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 21:33:00 Ken Munn
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for EU10/09/17 22:21:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                                 Last Night of the Proms11/09/17 11:48:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                                                    Re:Last Night of the Proms11/09/17 12:07:00 John Whitworth
                                                                                       Re:Re:Last Night of the Proms11/09/17 17:20:00 Claire Moran
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Last Night of the Proms12/09/17 18:40:00 Ken Munn
         Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 10:49:00 V Killick
            Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 10:59:00 Bradley Cheek
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 11:14:00 Paul Fisher
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 11:27:00 Bradley Cheek
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 12:15:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 12:30:00 Julian Pavey
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 12:31:00 Julian Pavey
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 12:37:00 Keith Iddon
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 13:38:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 15:59:00 Keith Iddon
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 16:22:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe11/09/17 16:37:00 Viv Griffiths
                              Did you vote for this?11/09/17 17:09:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Did you vote for this?11/09/17 17:14:00 Bernard Allen
                                    Re:Re:Did you vote for this?11/09/17 17:23:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                       Re:Re:Re:Did you vote for this?11/09/17 18:00:00 Bernard Allen
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Did you vote for this?11/09/17 18:48:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                  Ooops11/09/17 14:07:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                     Re:Ooops11/09/17 19:54:00 Claire Moran
                        Re:Re:Ooops11/09/17 22:07:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                           Re:Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 00:20:00 Claire Moran
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 06:46:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 10:09:00 Claire Moran
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 10:30:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 13:16:00 Claire Moran
                                          Re:Ooops12/09/17 13:25:00 John Whitworth
                                             Re:Re:Ooops12/09/17 13:41:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                     All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 14:05:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                        Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 14:48:00 Bernard Allen
                           Re:Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 14:53:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 15:22:00 Julian Pavey
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 19:44:00 Alan Clark
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong12/09/17 20:11:00 Julian Pavey
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:All the things we were told about Brexit that turned out to be wrong15/09/17 02:19:00 Urs Esser
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:March for Europe19/09/17 08:47:00 V Killick
   Pants on fire16/09/17 13:00:00 Ian Fillingham
      Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 14:36:00 Ken Munn
         Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 19:49:00 Alan Clark
            Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 20:03:00 Viv Griffiths
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 20:19:00 Robert Fish
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 20:34:00 Viv Griffiths
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 20:42:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 20:55:00 Viv Griffiths
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 21:26:00 Robert Fish
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 21:42:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 22:01:00 Nick Jenkins
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire16/09/17 23:49:00 Alan Clark
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire17/09/17 09:23:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire18/09/17 16:20:00 Chris Lawrence
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire18/09/17 22:43:00 Brian Coyle
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire19/09/17 08:29:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire19/09/17 09:06:00 Aubrey Crawley
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pants on fire19/09/17 09:35:00 Carl Wynne
                                          :Pants on fire19/09/17 10:06:00 Bernard Allen
                                             Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 10:28:00 Aubrey Crawley
                                                Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 10:29:00 Bernard Allen
                                                Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 12:17:00 Richard Greenhough
                                             Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 10:31:00 Bradley Cheek
                                                Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 10:34:00 Bernard Allen
                                                   Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 11:36:00 Paul Fisher
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 12:03:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 12:46:00 Paul Fisher
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 13:02:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 13:13:00 Paul Fisher
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 13:29:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 13:52:00 Bernard Allen
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 13:57:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 15:01:00 Bernard Allen
                                                Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 11:55:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                             Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 10:35:00 Cllr Sam Hearn
                                                Re:Re::Pants on fire19/09/17 11:07:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                   Strong and Stable19/09/17 11:19:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                      Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 13:12:00 Bernard Allen
                                                         Re:Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 13:38:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 14:32:00 Viv Griffiths
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 17:23:00 Brian Coyle
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 17:48:00 Paul Fisher
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable19/09/17 17:51:00 Brian Coyle
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable21/09/17 22:44:00 Mike Chisholm
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable21/09/17 22:53:00 Mike Chisholm
                                                                              Sorry, but this thread has become too long to follow21/09/17 23:08:00 Ken Munn
                                                                           Re:Sanity22/09/17 08:54:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Strong and Stable22/09/17 03:31:00 Urs Esser

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