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Topic: Re:'Ever closer union'
Posted by: T P Howell
Date/Time: 06/12/18 10:22:00

“Ever closer union”?  The brave Brexiteers have a new phantasm.  They cannot put forward a coherent argument to leave the EU as it is today.  So they have rebased the argument to “Ah, but you should be worried about what the EU might become in the future”.

In any event, the days of the small nation state are rapidly coming to an end.  The World has changed since 1975.  It’s a pity that some of us haven’t noticed. So harking back to the 1975 referendum is irrelevant (and illogical – do you never change your world view when circumstances change?).

The power balance between big business and governments is shifting.  The tools of government for a nation state are rapidly diminishing.  The main remaining tools are the power to tax, and to control currency (either through exchange controls or interest rates). 

Big business operates on a global basis.  It is mobile, and arbitrages taxes, regulation, cost of doing business etc.   Don’t be deceived: the Brexit agenda is for low taxes and low regulation (i.e. no consumer protection, no workers’ rights, no protection of our privacy, no environmental protection, no fiscal stability measures, etc. etc. etc.).  (Rees-Mogg “If it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here. There’s nothing to stop that.”)

And before anyone cheers low taxes: (a) low tax = low services: read the various posts on crimes on this forum; travel on (and pay for) public transport in the UK; compare the declining quality of public health care in the UK with the rest of the EU; and compare UK state old age pensions (and the resulting poverty) with the rest of the EU; and (b) don’t think that lower taxes = lower personal taxes for ordinary people.  We are an immobile sitting target.  It will be the mobile international corporations who benefit from the low taxes.   If you have any doubts about this just look at the political champions for Brexit: Rees-Mogg, Davies, Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith, etc.  Not one a champion of the ordinary citizen.

But business still needs access to markets.  The EU is the second largest market in the World.  By closer union within the EU (i.e. integration of our economies) our governments (if they are so minded) can balance the interests of the citizen against unrestricted market forces.  The EU has an outstanding track record in doing this.  It can do so by leveraging the power of cooperation between its independent 28 member states by agreeing common standards and rules.

The integration of our regulations also substantially reduces the costs of business.  The Brexiteers “bonfire of the red tape” is another lie.  When I started work as an international lawyer in the 1980s, the costs of doing business across Europe where prohibitively expensive, particularly for smaller businesses.  Different laws and regulations to comply with in each different country.  Currency costs (and exchange risks) etc.   The integration of regulation into a single rule book in many areas (particularly financial services) has massively reduced inefficiencies and transactional costs, and massively increased competition across the entire EU.

If you think that by leaving the EU you will be able to stop the irresistible tide of globalisation, they you are King Cnut sitting on the beach.  Far better to go with the flow and be part of a powerful, integrated, political and economic force where we can exert far greater influence over world economic forces at every level.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.03/12/18 20:03:00 Dom Oldridge
   Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.03/12/18 20:11:00 Claire Moran
      Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.03/12/18 20:16:00 Dom Oldridge
         Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.03/12/18 20:18:00 Steve Taylor
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.03/12/18 22:43:00 Vivienne Cox
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 08:07:00 Alan Clark
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 08:39:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 08:56:00 Paul Fisher
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 11:13:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 11:20:00 Ken Munn
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 12:23:00 Paul Fisher
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 12:32:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
      Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 2nd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 08:55:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
   Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 09:17:00 Richard Greenhough
      Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 11:15:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
      Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 11:18:00 Alan Clark
         Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 11:48:00 Richard Greenhough
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 12:00:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 12:19:00 Alan Clark
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 12:34:00 Richard Greenhough
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 15:18:00 Brian Coyle
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 15:24:00 Steve Taylor
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:08:00 Dom Oldridge
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 15:24:00 John Hickman
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 15:51:00 Alan Clark
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:05:00 Richard Greenhough
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:11:00 Paul Scullion
                              Perhaps..04/12/18 16:23:00 Keith Iddon
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:40:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:50:00 Richard Greenhough
                                 Re:Re::Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:55:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:01:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Congratulations are in order04/12/18 17:06:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 16:38:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:14:00 Dom Oldridge
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:19:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:20:00 Richard Greenhough
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 19:48:00 Alan Clark
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 17:28:00 Alan Clark
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 18:05:00 Richard Greenhough
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 18:31:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.04/12/18 19:31:00 Alan Clark
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.05/12/18 17:55:00 Alan Clark
                           Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.05/12/18 10:40:00 John Whitworth
                              Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.05/12/18 14:40:00 Brian Coyle
                                 'Ever closer union'05/12/18 17:53:00 Alastair Banton
                                    Re:'Ever closer union'06/12/18 10:22:00 T P Howell
                                       Re:Re:'Ever closer union'06/12/18 17:28:00 John Hickman
                                    Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 15:17:00 Vanessa Smith
                                       Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 16:15:00 Adrian Irving
                                          Re:Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 18:02:00 Steve Taylor
                                          Re:Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 18:02:00 Steve Taylor
                                       Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 16:57:00 Claire Moran
                                          Re:Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 17:28:00 Adrian Irving
                                          Re:Re:Re:'Ever closer union'09/12/18 19:06:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
      Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.09/12/18 14:49:00 V Killick
         Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.09/12/18 16:37:00 Robert Fish
         Re:Re:Re:Parliamentary petition for 3rd Ref for Brexit.09/12/18 20:02:00 Steve Taylor

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