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Topic: Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?
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Posted by: Paul Corcoran
Date/Time: 27/07/19 10:19:00

I went down to Chiswick High Road earlier today to have a look at the junction of Dukes Avenue with regard to the latest design for CS9 at this spot.

Like many people including ChiswickW4.com when I saw that they were abandoning plans to ditch the right hand turn into Dukes Avenue I made the assumption that this necessarily meant the cycle path had to return to the pavement outside the Church. The information released by TfL was ambiguous so I think it was an understandable reaction. TfL don't actually make it explicit that they intend to keep the cycle path on the road rather than the pavement until page 43 of the report which is bizarre for such a key point. There is also no map provided showing the new layout.

I'm not sure if this is definitive but as far as I could find on the internet the Department for transport mandates a minimum width for a highway along which buses run of 6.9m plus an additional 3.75 for an additional lane. Add to that the 2.5m width of the cycle path, rounding that down and assuming that the 2.5mn includes raised kerbs necessary for segregation you get a width of 13 metres.

I took 13 paces across the road at this point as an approximation of a metre which was probably an underestimate and got to close to touching distance for the bank on the opposite side of the road. I don't know whether pavement widths are mandatory but the 2m recommended for wheelchair access doesn't seem feasible. It would be great if someone with a digital tape measure could confirm these distances accurately.

It won't be possible to steal back some extra centimetres by moving the kerb on the southern side of the road closer to the trees as they are already right up against them and there is evidence of displacement from routes which will be a problem for for the cycle path.

To me it doesn't seem feasible to fit in the new design as described and I still think my first take on this was right. However, TfL's qualified traffic engineers will have looked at this in detail, measured it out scientifically, checked what is and isn't allowed within current legislation and submitted the plan accordingly. This begs the question why in a very detailed 53 page report on the outcome of the consultation was a map of the layout at this junction not provided? Ultimately this was what all the time and expense was about and people need to be reassured that this is not a frying pan and fire situation.

The irony is that whatever pain has to be taken to implement this new design is actually pretty pointless. Most cyclists will stay with general traffic at this point both eastbound and westbound to avoid the pedestrian phase at Dukes Avenue and the likely pinchpoint where the cycle path narrows. The far simpler solution would have been to make the section in front of the Church a shared pedestrian cyclist space with pedestrian priority as others have suggested on this forum.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 10:19:00 Paul Corcoran
   Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 10:45:00 Michael Robinson
      Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 11:07:00 Dan Evans
         Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 13:31:00 Michael Robinson
            Re:CHR wide enough for new CS9 design? Yep with loss of another Tree27/07/19 14:33:00 Loraine Pemberton
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:12:00 David Lesniak
      Reply27/07/19 12:24:00 Kevin Howard
         Re:Reply27/07/19 13:19:00 Michael Robinson
            Re:Re:Reply27/07/19 16:17:00 David Lesniak
      Details, details.27/07/19 16:01:00 David Lesniak
   Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 11:31:00 Tony Smart
      Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 11:42:00 Loraine Pemberton
         Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 12:22:00 Tony Smart
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 12:27:00 Loraine Pemberton
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 12:41:00 Julian Pavey
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 12:54:00 Steve Taylor
               Re:Is CHR wide enough for the new CS9 design ? NO !27/07/19 12:55:00 Loraine Pemberton
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 12:55:00 Tony Smart
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 13:19:00 Loraine Pemberton
                     Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 14:22:00 Steve Taylor
                        Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 15:11:00 Ken Munn
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 15:30:00 Loraine Pemberton
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 15:45:00 Ken Munn
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 15:13:00 Ken Munn
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:04:00 Janice Evans
                        Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:14:00 Loraine Pemberton
                           Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:24:00 David Millar
                              Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:39:00 Loraine Pemberton
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:29:00 David Lesniak
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 16:47:00 Mike Chisholm
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 21:47:00 Tony Smart
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?27/07/19 23:47:00 Richard Bryson
                                 Reply28/07/19 07:45:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                    Re:Reply28/07/19 08:51:00 Steve Taylor
                                    Re:Reply28/07/19 09:42:00 Tony Smart
                                       Re:Re:Reply28/07/19 10:15:00 Dan Evans
                                          Re:Re:Re:Reply28/07/19 10:54:00 Tony Smart
                                             Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !28/07/19 11:56:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !28/07/19 14:51:00 Dan Evans
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !28/07/19 15:18:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !28/07/19 21:44:00 Tony Smart
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 09:08:00 Dan Evans
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 09:22:00 Tony Smart
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 09:31:00 Dan Evans
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 10:20:00 Tony Smart
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 10:07:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 10:22:00 Tony Smart
                                                                  Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 11:05:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 10:36:00 David Lesniak
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !29/07/19 15:26:00 Dan Evans
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !31/07/19 13:02:00 David Lesniak
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !31/07/19 17:20:00 Dan Evans
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply. Some North side pavement IS given over to CS9 !01/08/19 17:11:00 David Lesniak
                                       Re:Re:Reply28/07/19 11:05:00 Richard Bryson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Is Chiswick High Road wide enough for the new CS9 design?31/07/19 13:25:00 Steve Taylor
   Shooting the Messenger28/07/19 09:23:00 Francis Rowe
      Re:Shooting the Messenger28/07/19 09:50:00 Steve Taylor
      Re:Shooting the Messenger28/07/19 10:09:00 Loraine Pemberton
         Reply28/07/19 10:47:00 Richard Bryson
      Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 10:50:00 Michael Robinson
         Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 10:56:00 Richard Bryson
         Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 11:49:00 Michael Robinson
            Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 13:16:00 David Lesniak
               Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 20:45:00 Mike Chisholm
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 21:06:00 Ken Munn
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 22:53:00 Richard Bryson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 22:59:00 Tony Smart
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 23:20:00 Richard Bryson
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Cycling on pavement is “practical and uncontentious” ?28/07/19 23:46:00 Tony Smart
                                 Re: Petition against CS9/CW9 30/07/19 13:38:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                    Not so wonderful 30/07/19 16:44:00 Ken Munn
                                       Re:Not so wonderful 30/07/19 18:00:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                          Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 30/07/19 18:10:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                             Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 31/07/19 11:56:00 Tony Smart
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 31/07/19 12:24:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 31/07/19 12:41:00 David Lesniak
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 01/08/19 00:59:00 Tony Smart
                                                      Reply01/08/19 10:27:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 01/08/19 17:12:00 David Lesniak
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 01/08/19 23:37:00 Tony Smart
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful - typo amendment 02/08/19 12:58:00 David Lesniak
                                       Re:Not so wonderful 31/07/19 12:45:00 David Lesniak
                                          Re:Re:Not so wonderful 31/07/19 13:13:00 Ken Munn
                                             Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful 31/07/19 13:26:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                             Re:Re:Re:Not so wonderful 31/07/19 13:26:00 Janice Evans
                                 Reply01/08/19 20:09:00 Carl Wynne
                                    Re:Reply02/08/19 13:06:00 David Lesniak

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