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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy
Posted by: T P Howell
Date/Time: 27/06/16 22:12:00

Paul, I will agree and say very directly - 'hmm, maybe this isn't right'.

This will not be gentle economic readjustment.  And here's why:

- 44% of our exports went to the EU last year – if we do not have free access to the EU market, jobs in the UK will melt away like the Spring snow;

- 80% of the UK economy is based on services (which used to be called “invisibles”).  It is far easier to put up non-tariff barriers (e.g. rules and regulations) against invisibles than it is against tangible goods.

- the platitude that the French and Germans will “have” to give us a soft trade deal because they “need” to export their cars and wine to the UK is nonsense: - free movement of goods is the easy one - export of services require free of movement of workers (not of “people” as so often mis-stated), free movement of capital, and the right of establishment. 

- I expect that the “Outers” would pass off MiFiD, for example (one of the EU directives that gives us “passporting” rights into the EU for financial services) as the EU “red tape” that they so eager want to be rid of, despite the massive benefits it brings to the UK.

- Foreign companies invest in the UK, create manufacturing capacity and jobs (the US$ 1.7 trillion foreign direct investment stock into the UK), as well as jobs in the services sector (about 150 foreign banks alone regulated by the PRA – before we get to the non-banking sector) – because they want access to the 500 million richest people in the world (on average) – not because they are interested in our market of 65 million people - that investment has been drying up for the last year or so, because of the uncertainty over the referendum, and has now dropped off a cliff;

-  I can tell you as a fact that investment deals are being cancelled now left right and centre, because even for those signed up in the last few months, many had "MAC" clauses ("material adverse change") allowing the investor to back out if there was an exit vote.

- As already mentioned in this thread – the pound is falling – the cost of imports, particularly energy and food, will increase creating inflation. 

- Real incomes (only recently recovering since the banking crises) will decline (hitting the poorest hardest) through inflation, and reduction of employment.

- Liquidity will reduce, and with less lending (particularly in the housing market) people will spend less, leading to job losses, leading to less spending, etc, etc.

And all of this on the basis that NOBODY VOTED TO LEAVE THE EU (except for the completely dogmatic) because nobody explained what the “leave” option would be (because nobody knew, and still nobody knows).  In reality, people only voted against remaining, not to leaving.

This, on any level, was a very bad decision making process.  We were not given the choice of “Option A” or “Option B”.  We were given the choice of “Option A” or “Option unknown” (even after discounting the misinformation). And we still don’t know what the “leave” option actually is.

If you have a binary option (either “A” or “B”), you can’t exercise a valid vote until you know what both options are. “Okay, let’s reject Option A, and wait and see what Option B looks like”.  You can only make a valid decision when both options are on the table, and you can choose between them.

That is why a second referendum or a general election is a fundamental democratic requirement when we know what “exit” looks like, so we can compare “Option A” with “Option B”.

We cannot stake the future of this country, and our children’s future, on a pig in a poke.

Or, we could just ask the EU politely if they minded if we stayed in the EEA, and promise to comply with all of the EU regulations (including free movement of workers), and pay our membership fee.  Of course then we would not then have any say in making the EU regulations (currently made by the Council of Ministers, not the Commission (or “Brussels”) as misrepresented during the campaign).  At the moment, that the EEA is looking like the only viable option – and what a complete own goal that would turn out to be.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:29:00 Alison Neary
   Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:35:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:36:00 Alison Neary
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:41:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:43:00 Richard Greenhough
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:46:00 Alison Neary
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:48:00 Michael Robinson
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:53:00 Richard Greenhough
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 11:17:00 Michael Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:43:00 Richard Greenhough
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:47:00 Michael Robinson
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 11:50:00 Alison Neary
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:05:00 Loraine Pemberton
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:23:00 Richard Greenhough
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:44:00 Michael Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 14:07:00 Richard Greenhough
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:40:00 Richard Bradford
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:40:00 Penelope Crocker
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:46:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:41:00 Richard Greenhough
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:45:00 Alison Neary
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 10:52:00 Michael Brown
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 12:00:00 Andy Pease
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 12:06:00 Michael Robinson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:18:00 Michael Brown
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:38:00 Georgina Flint
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 13:53:00 Steve Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 14:39:00 Andy Pease
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 14:59:00 Michael Robinson
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:15:00 Andy Pease
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:38:00 Michael Robinson
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:45:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:00:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:15:00 Richard Greenhough
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 15:43:00 Michael Robinson
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 16:06:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                So to sum up this morning24/06/16 16:12:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                   Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 16:17:00 Alison Neary
                                                   Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 16:20:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                      Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                                         Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:08:00 Alison Neary
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:26:00 Michael Robinson
                                                         Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:11:00 Niki Scrase
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:14:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:18:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                         Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:12:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                         Re:Re:Re:So to sum up this morning24/06/16 17:13:00 Ken Munn
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 15:00:00 V Killick
   Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 19:34:00 Claire Moran
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 23:31:00 Steve Taylor
      Re:Well I'm happy24/06/16 23:50:00 John Whitworth
         Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 00:26:00 Chris Calvi-Freeman
            Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:45:00 Richard Bradford
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 13:42:00 Steve Taylor
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 23:38:00 Chris Calvi-Freeman
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 08:17:00 Steve Taylor
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 10:24:00 Richard Greenhough
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 23:46:00 Chris Calvi-Freeman
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 09:10:00 Richard Greenhough
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 09:12:00 Richard Greenhough
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 09:17:00 Michael Robinson
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 12:27:00 Steve Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 12:36:00 Richard Greenhough
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 12:44:00 Steve Taylor
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 08:49:00 Will Watson
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:16:00 Guy Lambert
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:42:00 Georgina Flint
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:48:00 Richard Bradford
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:55:00 Philippa Bond
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:56:00 Philippa Bond
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 09:58:00 Maggie Dodge
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 10:02:00 Will Watson
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 10:21:00 Loraine Pemberton
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 10:45:00 Loraine Pemberton
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 11:07:00 Guy Lambert
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 11:16:00 Richard Bradford
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 12:05:00 Michael Robinson
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 12:29:00 Guy Lambert
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy - oops! 25/06/16 13:44:00 Andy Pease
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 18:04:00 Steve Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 18:08:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 18:33:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 18:55:00 Alastair Banton
                                       Could I just mention.....25/06/16 19:07:00 Jill Merrett
                                          Re:Could I just mention.....25/06/16 20:36:00 Steve Taylor
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 19:40:00 Michael Robinson
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 22:25:00 Carrie Reichardt
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy25/06/16 22:35:00 Richard Greenhough
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 08:22:00 Alan Clark
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 10:27:00 Richard Greenhough
   Re:Well I'm happy26/06/16 11:00:00 Beryl Bashford
      Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 13:51:00 Paul Morris
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:01:00 Keith Iddon
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:17:00 Paul Morris
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:53:00 Keith Iddon
                  Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 15:48:00 John Whitworth
         Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:29:00 Steve Taylor
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:34:00 Richard Greenhough
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:55:00 Keith Iddon
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 15:41:00 Steve Taylor
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:35:00 Lou Valdini
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 14:57:00 Steve Taylor
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 15:03:00 Paul Morris
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 20:53:00 Alison Neary
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 20:58:00 Paul Wright
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:06:00 Alison Neary
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:11:00 Paul Morris
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:15:00 Paul Wright
                                 Sorry?27/06/16 21:26:00 Alan Clark
                                    Re:Sorry?27/06/16 21:32:00 Paul Wright
                                    Re:Sorry?27/06/16 21:57:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:12:00 T P Howell
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:26:00 Alison Neary
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:35:00 Paul Wright
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:37:00 Alison Neary
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:43:00 Paul Wright
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:48:00 Paul Morris
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:02:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:36:00 Paul Morris
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:59:00 Mark Perry
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:27:00 T P Howell
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 21:57:00 Alan Clark
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:09:00 Paul Morris
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:30:00 John Connelly
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 22:56:00 Richard Bradford
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Well I'm happy27/06/16 23:44:00 Alan Clark

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