Guy -
“Stop making misleading statements about what the treaty means”. Have you read IGC 2004 and the latest mandate, by the way?
Still, why bother with the official texts and reasoned analysis when you can rely on what the BBC says? Is this where you got the wrong impression “We actually voted in favour of the EU/ECM”?
Thanks for the advice, but I think I’ll pass.
One more misconception to counter, this thing you call a “treaty” is still only a mandate for an intergovernmental conference to frame a treaty. We’re still two steps away from a treaty – hence now being the time to read, analyse and debate the text before it’s passed.
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There is no written mechanism to force any country into the Euro but, then again, there doesn’t need to be (“Events, dear boy”).
The UK and Euro issue is by no means dead - you’re naïve if you think it is. I’ll relate you a slightly more nuanced view from Brussels than your BBC one, if you don’t mind…
I had lunch not too long ago with a couple of EU civil servants (non-British). They conjectured – and it was only conjecture – that Britain has an unsustainable debt burden. They envisaged a scenario where there could be another run on sterling, perhaps even devaluation. This, they surmised, would be a potential scenario for Euro entry.
I was gently ribbed that, as Britain went cap in hand to the IMF in ’76, it could well run to the ECB when things go tits up.
It’s a long shot, but you never know (I’m sceptical). It would be folly though to think Britain and the Euro is permanently off the table. It’s about ‘ever closer union’ – and this Constitution is a means to an end, not the end itself.
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You also say, “Personally I'm not in favour of referenda: they are absolutely not in our political tradition which has served us well”.
Firstly, if you disagree with referenda, why did you vote in one against “EU/ECM” entry (which you didn’t actually, but we’ll let it pass again)? It’s okay for your generation to vote for a Common Market but not okay for mine to vote for the biggest constitutional change since the Acts of Union and Settlement? Thanks a bundle.
Secondly, if the system’s served us well, why replace it with a different one of less direct democracy? The system you praise is being used to undermine itself. What comes after may or may not be superior. Regardless, the people deserve a say. It’s not the politicians’ and civil servants’ system to give away – it’s ours. |
| Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
| Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 18:27:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 18:42:00 | Jerry Makides |
| Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 18:46:00 | Jan Jarvis |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 18:49:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 19:06:00 | Helen Fogarth |
| Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 19:10:00 | Jan Jarvis |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 19:17:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 23/06/07 22:02:00 | Jan Jarvis |
| media manipulation | 23/06/07 22:18:00 | Jerry Makides |
| Re:media manipulation | 25/06/07 11:18:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 12:23:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 24/06/07 09:24:00 | Peter G Boardman |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 24/06/07 10:21:00 | Peter John |
| Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 24/06/07 22:03:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 12:36:00 | Will Watson |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 13:46:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 13:54:00 | Helen Fogarth |
| After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 14:28:00 | David Giles |
| Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 14:49:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 17:09:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 17:24:00 | Will Watson |
| Re:A form of democracy | 25/06/07 17:44:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:A form of democracy | 25/06/07 17:56:00 | Will Watson |
| Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 17:50:00 | John Mc Cann |
| Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ? | 25/06/07 17:53:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 14:31:00 | Will Watson |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 25/06/07 14:37:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| A shift in sovereignty | 25/06/07 14:54:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| “The proposals that we dare not present to them directly” | 25/06/07 15:11:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| “Psychological terrorists” and the “new form of democracy” | 25/06/07 15:29:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 1975 | 25/06/07 18:12:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 1975 | 25/06/07 19:53:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Same old conservatives | 26/06/07 09:15:00 | Stephen Thornton |
| It's not about the Conservatives | 26/06/07 11:27:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Same old conservatives | 26/06/07 13:19:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Same old conservatives | 26/06/07 14:00:00 | Stephen Thornton |
| Re:Re:Re:Same old conservatives | 26/06/07 16:53:00 | David Giles |
| Re:What we voted on in 1975 | 26/06/07 14:19:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| The devil's in the detail | 26/06/07 16:40:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 26/06/07 20:38:00 | David Giles |
| Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 26/06/07 21:56:00 | John Mc Cann |
| Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 26/06/07 22:20:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 26/06/07 23:01:00 | Jerry Makides |
| Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 08:57:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Responding to Jerry: “The end of democracy” | 27/06/07 12:17:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Responding to Jerry: “totalitarianism” | 27/06/07 12:27:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Responding to Jerry: “Loss of freedom” | 27/06/07 12:36:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Responding to Jerry: The EU, prosperity and peace in Europe | 27/06/07 12:54:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 12:59:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 13:17:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 15:55:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 18:02:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 18:53:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 21:39:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 21:47:00 | John Mc Cann |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 21:52:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 22:03:00 | John Mc Cann |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution | 27/06/07 22:54:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Legal opinion wanted | 27/06/07 23:16:00 | Peter John |
| Re:Legal opinion wanted | 27/06/07 23:40:00 | John Mc Cann |
| Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted | 28/06/07 09:57:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted | 28/06/07 10:52:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted | 28/06/07 12:36:00 | Colin Jordan |
| The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament | 28/06/07 17:46:00 | David Giles |
| Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament | 28/06/07 22:33:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Re:Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament | 29/06/07 00:05:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted | 29/06/07 11:08:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted | 29/06/07 12:22:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| A Good Week to Bury Really Bad News | 29/06/07 17:59:00 | David Giles |
| Labour Party calls for Referendum | 30/06/07 17:22:00 | David Giles |
| Trade Union calls for Referendum | 11/07/07 20:24:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Trade Union calls for Referendum | 16/10/07 22:02:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 04/07/07 19:35:00 | Peter G Boardman |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 04/07/07 20:36:00 | Helen Fogarth |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 04/07/07 22:25:00 | Will Watson |
| Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 05/07/07 08:25:00 | Peter John |
| Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ? | 05/07/07 18:46:00 | David Giles |
| EU to pay Wine Producers to give up producing bad wine | 06/07/07 18:14:00 | David Giles |
| For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact | 12/07/07 11:19:00 | Fraser Pearce |
| Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact | 12/07/07 12:22:00 | Guy Lambert |
| Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council | 05/08/07 20:07:00 | David Giles |
| Re:Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council | 05/08/07 20:29:00 | Colin Jordan |
| Re:Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact | 06/08/07 15:12:00 | David Giles |
| Can we trust Gordon Brown on this issue ? | 15/10/07 18:36:00 | David Giles |
| Referendum | 17/10/07 09:22:00 | Brendan McCarthy |