Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted
Posted by: Fraser Pearce
Date/Time: 28/06/07 10:52:00

Guy –

You say, “We actually voted in favour of the EU/ECM (I voted against…)”.

When was that exactly?

You also say “I believe the change in administration in the EU is entirely justified and I support most if not all of the progress it embodies, and frankly this is much ado about not much.”

Are you aware of what this “change” implies?

I think you’re wrong that this matter is “much ado about not much” because:

- The mandate and IGC 2004 create the legal basis for the EU to be superior to and separate from its 27 Member States. In effect, the EU’s laws and authority will be superior to national laws and constitutions. Until now, the EU hasn’t had corporate existence in its own right. The EU has only been a descriptive term (hence the Maastricht Treaty being a ‘Treaty on European Union’, not one ‘of European Union’). The latest mandate and IGC 2004 take Maastricht further – a de facto union – with an EU president, effective foreign minister, diplomatic corps, legislative, executive and judicial power, all areas of public policy coming under EU power and us – you and me – as de facto EU citizens under EU law.

- More lawmaking power will be given to the EU (in 50-odd areas of public policy such as science, sport, energy, public health and transport). The unelected EU Commission will have the sole role of proposing law in these new areas (emphasis on ‘unelected’).

- The Council of Ministers will be the primary focus for creating these news laws. This is because the Council will, for the first time, have a legal and official basis. As a legal entity, the elected heads of the 27 Member States will be required to show primary loyalty to the EU – not the people at home who elected them (emphasis on ‘primary loyalty’).

- Members States will lose the right to be permanently represented on the EU Commission. This may be detrimental to smaller countries, already stymied by proposals to give bigger EU Member States more weight in passing EU law. Further down the line, should Turkey accede to the Union, it would likely be the poorest and weightiest Member State.

-------

I could go on but fear I’ve lost everybody already. If you’re fine with all the above Guy, that’s great – a happy citizen.

I just think people should be presented with the proposed changes openly and clearly. I’m suspicious of the disingenuous and unseemly haste this is being rushed through.

I also believe that the citizens affected by these massive changes should be given a vote on whether they’re comfortable with them.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 18:27:00 David Giles
   Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 18:42:00 Jerry Makides
   Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 18:46:00 Jan Jarvis
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 18:49:00 David Giles
         Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 19:06:00 Helen Fogarth
         Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 19:10:00 Jan Jarvis
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 19:17:00 David Giles
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?23/06/07 22:02:00 Jan Jarvis
                  media manipulation23/06/07 22:18:00 Jerry Makides
                     Re:media manipulation25/06/07 11:18:00 David Giles
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 12:23:00 David Giles
   Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?24/06/07 09:24:00 Peter G Boardman
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?24/06/07 10:21:00 Peter John
         Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?24/06/07 22:03:00 Richard Greenhough
   Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 12:36:00 Will Watson
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 13:46:00 Richard Greenhough
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 13:54:00 Helen Fogarth
         After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 14:28:00 David Giles
            Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 14:49:00 Jonathan Bingham
               Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 17:09:00 David Giles
                  Re:Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 17:24:00 Will Watson
                     Re:A form of democracy25/06/07 17:44:00 Richard Greenhough
                        Re:Re:A form of democracy25/06/07 17:56:00 Will Watson
            Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 17:50:00 John Mc Cann
               Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?25/06/07 17:53:00 Richard Greenhough
         Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 14:31:00 Will Watson
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?25/06/07 14:37:00 Fraser Pearce
               A shift in sovereignty25/06/07 14:54:00 Fraser Pearce
                  “The proposals that we dare not present to them directly”25/06/07 15:11:00 Fraser Pearce
                     “Psychological terrorists” and the “new form of democracy”25/06/07 15:29:00 Fraser Pearce
                        Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 197525/06/07 18:12:00 David Giles
                           Re:Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 197525/06/07 19:53:00 Guy Lambert
                              Same old conservatives26/06/07 09:15:00 Stephen Thornton
                                 It's not about the Conservatives26/06/07 11:27:00 Fraser Pearce
                                 Re:Same old conservatives26/06/07 13:19:00 David Giles
                                    Re:Re:Same old conservatives26/06/07 14:00:00 Stephen Thornton
                                       Re:Re:Re:Same old conservatives26/06/07 16:53:00 David Giles
                           Re:What we voted on in 197526/06/07 14:19:00 Richard Greenhough
                              The devil's in the detail26/06/07 16:40:00 Fraser Pearce
                                 It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution26/06/07 20:38:00 David Giles
                                    Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution26/06/07 21:56:00 John Mc Cann
                                       Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution26/06/07 22:20:00 David Giles
                                          Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution26/06/07 23:01:00 Jerry Makides
                                    Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 08:57:00 Guy Lambert
                                       Responding to Jerry: “The end of democracy”27/06/07 12:17:00 Fraser Pearce
                                          Responding to Jerry: “totalitarianism”27/06/07 12:27:00 Fraser Pearce
                                             Responding to Jerry: “Loss of freedom”27/06/07 12:36:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                Responding to Jerry: The EU, prosperity and peace in Europe27/06/07 12:54:00 Fraser Pearce
                                       Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 12:59:00 David Giles
                                          Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 13:17:00 Fraser Pearce
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 15:55:00 Guy Lambert
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 18:02:00 David Giles
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 18:53:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 21:39:00 Guy Lambert
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 21:47:00 John Mc Cann
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 21:52:00 David Giles
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 22:03:00 John Mc Cann
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution27/06/07 22:54:00 Guy Lambert
                                                               Legal opinion wanted27/06/07 23:16:00 Peter John
                                                                  Re:Legal opinion wanted27/06/07 23:40:00 John Mc Cann
                                                                     Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted28/06/07 09:57:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted28/06/07 10:52:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted28/06/07 12:36:00 Colin Jordan
                                                                              The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament28/06/07 17:46:00 David Giles
                                                                                 Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament28/06/07 22:33:00 Guy Lambert
                                                                                    Re:Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament29/06/07 00:05:00 David Giles
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted29/06/07 11:08:00 David Giles
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted29/06/07 12:22:00 Fraser Pearce
                                                                                    A Good Week to Bury Really Bad News29/06/07 17:59:00 David Giles
                                                                                       Labour Party calls for Referendum30/06/07 17:22:00 David Giles
                                                                                          Trade Union calls for Referendum11/07/07 20:24:00 David Giles
                                                                                             Re:Trade Union calls for Referendum16/10/07 22:02:00 David Giles
   Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?04/07/07 19:35:00 Peter G Boardman
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?04/07/07 20:36:00 Helen Fogarth
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?04/07/07 22:25:00 Will Watson
      Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?05/07/07 08:25:00 Peter John
         Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?05/07/07 18:46:00 David Giles
            EU to pay Wine Producers to give up producing bad wine06/07/07 18:14:00 David Giles
               For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact12/07/07 11:19:00 Fraser Pearce
                  Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact12/07/07 12:22:00 Guy Lambert
                     Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council05/08/07 20:07:00 David Giles
                        Re:Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council05/08/07 20:29:00 Colin Jordan
                     Re:Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact06/08/07 15:12:00 David Giles
                        Can we trust Gordon Brown on this issue ?15/10/07 18:36:00 David Giles
                           Referendum17/10/07 09:22:00 Brendan McCarthy

Forum Home