Jan, Thank you for your honest answer. You don't think there should be a referendum. However you are quite wrong if you think that the new EU Constitutional Treaty "changes the existing framework very little". It in fact makes profound change both the internal Constitution of the EU, in the relationship between the EU and the member states and in how each member state is going to be governed from now on. It will affect all aspects of life in the EU, including how we are governed by our national and local governments here in Chiswick. In the end, all politics, including EU politics, are local. Those calling for a referendum are not necessarily opposed to the new Constitutional Treaty or indeed to the EU. I am in fact in favour of the UK's membership of the EU.But I am not in favour of this new Constitutional Treaty because I believe it centralises power in the unelected EU bureaucracy and takes power away from ordinary people all over Europe. I believe that the EU needs to become much more democratic and decentralised. I believe that the constitution and structure of the EU should be approved by the people of the EU as a whole by referenda in all the member states so they have democratic and popular legitimacy. Instead, this new Constitutional Treaty has been agreed by the heads of government of the 27 member-states behind closed doors and without prior publication of or consultation of the Treaty.In many cases, including the case of the UK, these heads of government haave no mandate for entering into this Treaty. In the UK's case the situation is more serious because: 1) All major political parties, including Labour,  have promised us a referendum on the European Constitution and this Treaty is a European Constitution in all but in name. You may call a duck a swan, but if it is in fact a duck, it remains a duck; 2) The Treaty has been signed by a Prime Minister who will be leaving office and no longer accountable to the electorate within days of signing the Treaty.

Entire Thread

Topic	Date Posted	Posted By
Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 18:27:00	David Giles
Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 18:42:00	Jerry Makides
Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 18:46:00	Jan Jarvis
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 18:49:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 19:06:00	Helen Fogarth
Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 19:10:00	Jan Jarvis
Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 19:17:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	23/06/07 22:02:00	Jan Jarvis
media manipulation	23/06/07 22:18:00	Jerry Makides
Re:media manipulation	25/06/07 11:18:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Referendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 12:23:00	David Giles
Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	24/06/07 09:24:00	Peter G Boardman
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	24/06/07 10:21:00	Peter John
Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	24/06/07 22:03:00	Richard Greenhough
Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 12:36:00	Will Watson
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 13:46:00	Richard Greenhough
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 13:54:00	Helen Fogarth
After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 14:28:00	David Giles
Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 14:49:00	Jonathan Bingham
Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 17:09:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 17:24:00	Will Watson
Re:A form of democracy	25/06/07 17:44:00	Richard Greenhough
Re:Re:A form of democracy	25/06/07 17:56:00	Will Watson
Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 17:50:00	John Mc Cann
Re:Re:After Iraq, can we trust Blair anymore ?	25/06/07 17:53:00	Richard Greenhough
Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 14:31:00	Will Watson
Re:Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	25/06/07 14:37:00	Fraser Pearce
A shift in sovereignty	25/06/07 14:54:00	Fraser Pearce
“The proposals that we dare not present to them directly”	25/06/07 15:11:00	Fraser Pearce
“Psychological terrorists” and the “new form of democracy”	25/06/07 15:29:00	Fraser Pearce
Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 1975	25/06/07 18:12:00	David Giles
Re:Britain has not had a Referendum on Europe since 6th June 1975	25/06/07 19:53:00	Guy Lambert
Same old conservatives	26/06/07 09:15:00	Stephen Thornton
It's not about the Conservatives	26/06/07 11:27:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Same old conservatives	26/06/07 13:19:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Same old conservatives	26/06/07 14:00:00	Stephen Thornton
Re:Re:Re:Same old conservatives	26/06/07 16:53:00	David Giles
Re:What we voted on in 1975	26/06/07 14:19:00	Richard Greenhough
The devil's in the detail	26/06/07 16:40:00	Fraser Pearce
It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	26/06/07 20:38:00	David Giles
Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	26/06/07 21:56:00	John Mc Cann
Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	26/06/07 22:20:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	26/06/07 23:01:00	Jerry Makides
Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 08:57:00	Guy Lambert
Responding to Jerry: “The end of democracy”	27/06/07 12:17:00	Fraser Pearce
Responding to Jerry: “totalitarianism”	27/06/07 12:27:00	Fraser Pearce
Responding to Jerry: “Loss of freedom”	27/06/07 12:36:00	Fraser Pearce
Responding to Jerry: The EU, prosperity and peace in Europe	27/06/07 12:54:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 12:59:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 13:17:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 15:55:00	Guy Lambert
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 18:02:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 18:53:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 21:39:00	Guy Lambert
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 21:47:00	John Mc Cann
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 21:52:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 22:03:00	John Mc Cann
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:It maybe called a Treaty but its the same Constitution	27/06/07 22:54:00	Guy Lambert
Legal opinion wanted	27/06/07 23:16:00	Peter John
Re:Legal opinion wanted	27/06/07 23:40:00	John Mc Cann
Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted	28/06/07 09:57:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted	28/06/07 10:52:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted	28/06/07 12:36:00	Colin Jordan
The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament	28/06/07 17:46:00	David Giles
Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament	28/06/07 22:33:00	Guy Lambert
Re:Re:The threat to the British Constitution and Parliament	29/06/07 00:05:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted	29/06/07 11:08:00	David Giles
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Legal opinion wanted	29/06/07 12:22:00	Fraser Pearce
A Good Week to Bury Really Bad News	29/06/07 17:59:00	David Giles
Labour Party calls for Referendum	30/06/07 17:22:00	David Giles
Trade Union calls for Referendum	11/07/07 20:24:00	David Giles
Re:Trade Union calls for Referendum	16/10/07 22:02:00	David Giles
Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	04/07/07 19:35:00	Peter G Boardman
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	04/07/07 20:36:00	Helen Fogarth
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	04/07/07 22:25:00	Will Watson
Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	05/07/07 08:25:00	Peter John
Re:Re:Re:Ireland to hold Refendum on new EU Treaty - should the UK ?	05/07/07 18:46:00	David Giles
EU to pay Wine Producers to give up producing bad wine	06/07/07 18:14:00	David Giles
For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact	12/07/07 11:19:00	Fraser Pearce
Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact	12/07/07 12:22:00	Guy Lambert
Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council	05/08/07 20:07:00	David Giles
Re:Britain's Seat on the UN Security Council	05/08/07 20:29:00	Colin Jordan
Re:Re:For Guy: France, Germany and the stability pact	06/08/07 15:12:00	David Giles
Can we trust Gordon Brown on this issue ?	15/10/07 18:36:00	David Giles
Referendum	17/10/07 09:22:00	Brendan McCarthy

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