Here’s my recollection (E&OE):
It was a very well attended meeting, partly thanks to the item on the proposed Chiswick cinema, although quite a few people left after that item.
London Underground was represented by Tony Matthews, the new GM of the Piccadilly line and Keith Foley, London Underground’s head of transport planning. Tony got short shrift from the Council members at the outset when he started talking to a PowerPoint presentation about all the wonderful improvements that had been made to LU since its inception 150 years ago and all the good things that were currently happening, including the new subsurface trains and the proposed new Picc line trains. (incidentally I saw no mention in the slides of the biggest forthcoming improvement of all to the “underground” network, Crossrail.)
One slide compared tube capacity and patronage over the last decade and showed the very significant increase in demand in recent years and (by inference) over the next decade. (Crossrail is of course relevant here.)
Talk quickly zeroed in on the Picc line at TG issue. Tony and Keith are clearly proud of the very high reliability of the line, which appears to be down to the very relaxed running speeds and the fortunate reliability of the 1973 vintage rolling stock.
Pretty much from the outset they voiced the opinion that an all all-day stop at TG wasn’t possible. (Keith stated they he “deals in facts, not opinions”.) One of their first arguments was that the District line provides an adequate service (this appears to be opinion not “fact”), with 2-6 minute frequencies – 6 trains/hour to Richmond, 6 to Ealing Broadway – meaning that generally no-one waits more than five minutes for a service to or from Hammersmith (laughter from the audience). Keith said he saw nothing particularly special about TG, “in zone 3” (interjection from me: it’s a zone 2/3 station!).
Keith said a Picc line stop at TG would reduce reliability, increase end-to end journey times and require two extra trains to be operated (and presumably purchased first).
Keith also showed LU’s most recent analysis, which suggested that a 3.7 minute time saving for a small number of TG users would be at the expense of a two minute additional journey time for many times more through passengers. (Apologies, I didn’t get a chance to note the numbers.)
Mark Frost, Hounslow’s transport planning team leader, methodically argued that the “value of time” for all passengers was not equal, and that the time saving/time loss analysis should be weighted to represent the higher value of time ascribed to business travellers over commuters and commuters over leisure travellers, and the high value of time for waiting versus travelling on-train. He also discussed the poor orbital transport options available in London and the fact that a Picc line stop at TG would assist here, for example by allowing easier access to Heathrow from Richmond; there are also good orbital bus connections at TG of course. Keith’s responded that the value of time issue had been taken into account and that many of the Heathrow passengers were business travellers (not sure if that’s true, as most business travellers would be likely to be travelling on Heathrow Express or by taxi). Nevertheless he made a valid point that many Heathrow passengers were commuters going to work at the airport. He also stated that the highest value of time (disbenefit) was ascribed to people travelling cheek by jowl in an overcrowded train.
Various Council members asked questions but the discussion was derailed (NPI) somewhat when two wanted to discuss Gunnersbury station – a valid concern, but not the one the LU guys had been briefed on, and of course it’s District line / London Overground, with different GMs not present. Mary Macleod spoke of the long-held desire to see the TG stop introduced and the growth in economic activity in Chiswick.
From the floor, Richard Jennings went first, pointing out that the timetabled frequency had dropped from 27 to 24 trains/hour and that by running more trains the capacity issue would be addressed. He also pointed out that running times had been increased. I went next and backed this up, suggesting that there is now so much slack in the timetable that a stop at TG (2 minutes) should be able to be accommodated without significant detriment to most through passengers, with untimetabled (trains running ahead of schedule) delays at other stations reduced. I mentioned the very long terminus dwell times at Heathrow T5 and the long dwell time at T4 for T4-T123 trains, arguing that the net effect should be that no more trains should be required.
I took issue with the cost-benefit analysis, pointing out that when the residents group (Richard Jennings, Jeff Gear, Ollie Dewis etc plus myself on behalf of LBH) had met on several occasions with senior LU and GLA people (supported over the years by Mary Macleod and Ann Keen) we appeared to have come to an agreement that the business case (delays versus time savings) was closely balanced and only weakly negative (against introduction of the stop). I pointed out that Crossrail would change this balance by reducing the proportion of Heathrow passengers . I asked whether the current LU people were aware of this analysis. I also said that I found it difficult to see how the average time saving for TG passengers would be only 3.7 minutes when the most common journey to benefit from the stop would be towards central London, were passengers currently change at Hammersmith: this involves an extra 2 minutes at Stamford Brook (versus a non-stop Picc line train), 2 minutes at Ravenscourt Park and the transfer time at Hammersmith, plus of course the extra frequency of trains, meaning much shorter waiting times at TG, and of course the same in reverse. I also mentioned the Richmond-Heathrow journeys that Mark had raised and asked whether these had been captured in the latest LU analysis.
In terms of whether TG has a reasonable service, I pointed out that it’s the busiest station in Hounslow borough and that while there are relatively frequent trains if heading to or from Hammersmith, this isn’t so if coming from Heathrow: it’s quite common to wait 10 or 15 minutes at Acton Town if trying to get home from the airport.
I said that I sympathised with LU in having to respond to people who thought they knew better than the professionals but I pointed out that we had done our research and developed a very good grasp of the issues here. I concluded that, in my opinion, LU had nailed its colours to the mast many years ago and it was time to look for reasons to make this stop happen, not reason why it couldn’t.
(At last those were the arguments I tried to make - not sure whether they all came across so clearly as I had just come out of hospital a couple of hours before and had to go from memory.)
Keith responded that the discussions of a few years ago (including Jeff Gear’s analysis and LU’s review of the figures) were indeed available to the current LU management (not sure whether I entirely believe that), but that circumstances had changed and there were now more through passengers whereas TG hadn’t significantly grown as a station (little wonder as Picc line doesn’t stop there!).
Tony also stated that while 27 trains per hour had been originally timetabled, they were never successfully operated as the timetable was too tight. He said that rising passenger numbers meant longer times required for boarding and alighting at stations. (Of course more capacity i.e. higher frequency means fewer passengers per train and therefore should mean shorter stop times at stations, but I didn’t get the opportunity to cross-examine him on this.) He also mentioned the challenge of running a timetabled service that has to interface with the District line at Acton Town and the Metropolitan line at Uxbridge-Rayners Lane.
A couple of other residents asked further questions. One man argued that Barons Court and Gloucester Road should perhaps be skipped by the Picc line, or perhaps that some express services should run. (My view is neither of these will fly, especially the express option, as trains would simply bunch up.)
One lady mentioned the paucity of disabled access stations in the area and asked for advice as to when TG would be made accessible (the LU guys didn’t know – I believe the answer is not any time in the reasonable future although 7-8 years ago TG was on a priority list for lifts, since suspended.)
Anyway, that’s my recollection,. I took no notes, so apologies for errors or omissions. The LBH committee clerk may have taken verbatim notes but the most experienced clerk, Carol Stiles no longer covers CAF. I will ask LBH for their notes and whether they have a copy of the slides.
My conclusion is that now is the time to strike while the iron’s hot: to obtain the latest detailed cost-benefit analysis and see whether it’s complete and accurate, and if not to then see whether TG could be persuaded to either run a one-year all date trial or failing that an extension of the period each day when the stop is made.
Hope this is helpful.
CCF |
| Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
| Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 12/09/13 13:02:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 12/09/13 17:39:00 | Penny Lillie |
| Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 11:25:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 11:51:00 | John Hickman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 12:34:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 13:05:00 | Lisa Miller |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 13:08:00 | John Hickman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 17:37:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 15:15:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 17:38:00 | John Hickman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 13/09/13 17:55:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Balancing the benefits...and achieving the outcome | 13/09/13 18:10:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Balancing the benefits...and achieving the outcome | 13/09/13 19:05:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 14/09/13 11:59:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 14/09/13 12:07:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 14/09/13 13:09:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 14/09/13 13:46:00 | Ian Wylie |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 15/09/13 12:52:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 16/09/13 09:39:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 12:39:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 18:53:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 20:28:00 | Paul Green |
| Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 21:08:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 22:51:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 20:38:00 | John Hickman |
| Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 21:40:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 16/09/13 22:24:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 17/09/13 00:56:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 17/09/13 08:32:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 17/09/13 08:46:00 | Paul Green |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 17/09/13 12:18:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Train times and padding (geeky) | 19/09/13 20:40:00 | Gilbert Short |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 17/09/13 22:49:00 | Robin Cox |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 15/09/13 08:25:00 | Curzon Tussaud |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 15/09/13 12:49:00 | Mike Rivers |
| Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 15/09/13 12:58:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 16/09/13 10:13:00 | Charlotte Kasner |
| Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 16/09/13 12:18:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 17/09/13 09:40:00 | Curzon Tussaud |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 17/09/13 09:45:00 | Tessa Russell |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 17/09/13 13:24:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Bump n/m | 17/09/13 19:03:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 19/09/13 12:35:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Survey first, petition second | 19/09/13 14:41:00 | Paul Pryce |
| Re:Survey first, petition second | 19/09/13 14:56:00 | Paul Green |
| Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 19/09/13 18:55:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 19/09/13 21:35:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 19/09/13 22:12:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 00:29:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 07:56:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 09:24:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 10:08:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 14:23:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 15:05:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 14:29:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 15:18:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 15:46:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 15:54:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Survey first, petition second | 20/09/13 14:01:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 19/09/13 16:38:00 | Sam Alexander |
| Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 21/09/13 21:54:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 22/09/13 14:41:00 | Peter Eversden |
| Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 22/09/13 15:05:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly Line stop at Turnham Green petition | 23/09/13 13:35:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Bump n/m | 24/09/13 19:10:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Chiswick Area Forum tonight (24/9) | 24/09/13 19:18:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Chiswick Area Forum tonight (24/9) | 24/09/13 19:53:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Chiswick Area Forum tonight (24/9) | 26/09/13 06:49:00 | Alison Howard |
| Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 11:56:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 14:41:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 15:23:00 | Paul Green |
| Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 16:58:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 17:33:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 19:04:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 22:22:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 23:03:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 27/09/13 00:08:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 27/09/13 00:42:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 27/09/13 00:09:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 18:03:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 18:56:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 19:40:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 16:15:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 16:48:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 17:10:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 26/09/13 17:23:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 27/09/13 15:14:00 | Paul Pryce |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 27/09/13 19:25:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 01/10/13 10:56:00 | Paul Pryce |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 01/10/13 15:37:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Reliability and London Underground targets | 01/10/13 16:07:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Reliability and London Underground targets | 01/10/13 17:59:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 01/10/13 22:45:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 02/10/13 00:31:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 02/10/13 07:53:00 | Francis Rowe |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 02/10/13 12:12:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 02/10/13 16:07:00 | Francis Rowe |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 02/10/13 17:28:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 03/10/13 08:08:00 | Francis Rowe |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 03/10/13 10:19:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 03/10/13 15:52:00 | Patrick ONeill |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 03/10/13 16:47:00 | Tom Pike |
| Crowded Piccadilly line trains at Hammermith | 04/10/13 09:04:00 | Paul Pryce |
| Re:Crowded Piccadilly line trains at Hammermith | 04/10/13 12:23:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Crowded Piccadilly line trains at Hammermith | 04/10/13 13:57:00 | Alison Howard |
| Re:Re:Re:Crowded Piccadilly line trains at Hammermith | 04/10/13 14:28:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Crowded Piccadilly line trains at Hammermith | 04/10/13 14:58:00 | Alison Howard |
| Anecdote v. data | 04/10/13 14:24:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Anecdote v. data | 04/10/13 14:37:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Anecdote v. data | 04/10/13 19:20:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Anecdote v. data | 07/10/13 15:01:00 | Francis Rowe |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Anecdote v. data | 07/10/13 18:06:00 | Tom Pike |
| Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 12:35:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 13:16:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Re:Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 13:40:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 14:07:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 14:42:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Richmond - Heathrow via TG? | 27/09/13 15:46:00 | Jonathan Bingham |
| Re:Notes from the LU discussion at Chiswick Area Forum | 29/09/13 18:27:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Additional Piccadilly Line stock | 29/09/13 20:50:00 | Ian Wylie |
| Re:Re:Additional Piccadilly Line stock | 30/09/13 10:46:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| TG wait times for the last few days | 01/10/13 12:43:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:TG wait times for the last few days | 01/10/13 17:09:00 | Richard Jennings |
| Re:Re:TG wait times for the last few days | 01/10/13 17:34:00 | Andrew OSullivan |
| Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 01/10/13 17:45:00 | Richard Cathcart |
| Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 01/10/13 18:02:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 02/10/13 18:17:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Re:Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 03/10/13 09:31:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 03/10/13 11:00:00 | Thomas Barry |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 03/10/13 12:38:00 | Tom Pike |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 03/10/13 14:53:00 | Michael Dempsey |
| Piccadilly line GM says slow moving Piccadilly line trains should pick up at TG | 03/10/13 15:12:00 | Chris Calvi-Freeman |
| Re:Piccadilly line GM says slow moving Piccadilly line trains should pick up at TG | 03/10/13 15:42:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: A curious ocurrence last Thursday (26th Oct) | 03/10/13 16:43:00 | Kevin Mitchell |
| Re:Re:Re:TG wait times for the last few days | 01/10/13 18:13:00 | Adam Bradley |
| Re:Re:TG wait times for the last few days | 01/10/13 17:42:00 | Adam Bradley |