Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats
Posted by: Bill George
Date/Time: 03/05/22 10:13:00

Ed, I think for clarity we need to see what was happening in the two periods. The first one when traffic fell coincided with Mayor Livingston, who expanded bus routes and cut all fares across tubes and buses. So public transport played the key role in this fall in traffic. He also introduced the congestion charge.

There were some high profile LTN schemes in the period 2010-2019, such as Waltham Forest, which it seems did nothing to reduce vehicle numbers either in the borough overall or wider, which rather disproves the idea of 'traffic evaporation'.

Since Ken left, whatever the broader fiscal realities of his policies for TFL, fares have gone back and are most expensive in Europe. The rise of Amazon/ Uber etc seem unstoppable and drive traffic even as car ownership falls.

With the focus on active travel, public transport has taken a back seat, so we see key stretches of bus lanes removed. From what I can see a key lane westbound past Stamford Brook bus garage has not been reinstated, which I thought was the plan and point of all the recent digging.

There is a basic level of road connectivity needed for any modern economy to function. London has half the bridges of Paris. A lot of pollution in London blows in from the continent, so we are also dependent on others. LHR creates large amounts of pollution which is not changing this decade.

Things can be done around local distribution to reduce vehicles but needs coherent central planning and none of this is being included in even the latest commerical/ residential developments, so how this could work or when it might happen is an unknown.

The biggest problem in London is not people popping to the shops but the flow of traffic in and out of London, both trade and commuter plus visitors. People drive in and park at Westfield to reach business appnts in central London. Season tickets into London are exhorbitant, as are car park charges at local stations. We actively disincentivise people using rail into London. An M25 wide congestion charge, all going into public transport (and cycling) would make a difference.

This goes to the issue. Supporters claim that a cycle lane and LTNs are going to solve all this. There is no evidence for this, just musings about what 'might' happen, whereas we see as above how public transport can work. Bus speeds have fallen for at least a decade and will suffer again from some of these schemes. European countries see public transport and cycling as going together, though the emphasis is pretty much always on the former, and would never disadvantage buses to support cycing. One of the reasons Boris is pushing this as its a nice way of pretending something is being done without spending much money.

The overall point is you need to have alternatives, plus you are fighting certain trends in consumer behaviour. None of the vehicles driving in along the A4 every day are going to substitute for a bike, though they could to public transport. Many of those using cycle lanes to commute have merely swapped from public transport to a bike. Which is fine for them, but not addressing congestion.

It also ignores the fact that we have an aging population with unfortunate growing range of mobility issues. The issue is even worse outside London where privatisation has meant bus routes disappearing across many towns and cities. This has had a negative impact on productivity in UK and hit the poorest hardest. While many local authorities recently bid for funds to reinstate bus routes, most received nothing.

Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 08:53:00 Tom Pike
   Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 08:59:00 Janice Evans
   Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:20:00 Loraine Pemberton
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:40:00 Tom Pike
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:41:00 Paul Fisher
         Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:48:00 Tom Pike
         Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:58:00 Loraine Pemberton
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 10:40:00 Bruce Hammal
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 10:56:00 Maggie Dodge
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:06:00 Tom Pike
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:26:00 Peter Evans
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:28:00 Claire Moran
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:51:00 Peter Evans
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:04:00 Matthew Swain
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:08:00 Maggie Dodge
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:51:00 Loraine Pemberton
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:11:00 Peter Evans
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:19:00 Cecile Parfitt
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:35:00 Adrian Irving
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:44:00 Maggie Dodge
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:46:00 Paul Fisher
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:47:00 Maggie Dodge
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:16:00 Bruce Hammal
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:18:00 Bruce Hammal
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 18:17:00 Maggie Dodge
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:41:00 Robert Fish
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:38:00 Robert Fish
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:52:00 Robert Fish
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:55:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                 Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:09:00 Richard Cathcart
                                    Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:21:00 Steve Taylor
                                       Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:54:00 Steve Taylor
                                    Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 16:35:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                       Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 16:57:00 Robert Fish
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 17:11:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                             Dodgy stats29/04/22 18:06:00 Justin Stephenson
                                                Re:Dodgy stats30/04/22 10:14:00 Tom Pike
                                                   Re:Re:Dodgy stats30/04/22 10:39:00 Andrew Jones
                                                      Reply30/04/22 18:27:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Reply30/04/22 19:25:00 Andrew Jones
                                                            Re:Re:Reply01/05/22 00:39:00 Tom Pike
                                                   Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 21:40:00 Justin Stephenson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 23:19:00 Tom Pike
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 23:37:00 Ed Saper
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats03/05/22 10:13:00 Bill George
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats03/05/22 11:50:00 Ed Saper
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:12:00 Robert Fish
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:26:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:40:00 Robert Fish
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 20:00:00 Russell Pearson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 29/04/22 20:02:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 29/04/22 20:18:00 Robert Fish
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 19:08:00 Tom Pike
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypo 30/04/22 19:15:00 Russell Pearson
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 20:26:00 Steve Taylor
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 20:53:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 07:07:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                        Reply01/05/22 08:49:00 John Hall
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 09:34:00 Tom Pike
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 10:34:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                              Reply01/05/22 11:47:00 John Hall
                                                                                 Re:Reply01/05/22 12:00:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                                    Reply01/05/22 12:23:00 John Hall
                                                                                    Re:Re:Reply04/05/22 14:35:00 Philippa Bond
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 18:47:00 Tom Pike
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs02/05/22 22:54:00 Maggie Dodge
   Re:Pollution levels at you address04/05/22 13:56:00 Tim Garfoot
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address04/05/22 14:29:00 Steve Taylor
         Reply04/05/22 17:57:00 Tom Pike
            Re:04/05/22 19:47:00 Maggie Dodge
               Re:Re:04/05/22 20:10:00 Tom Pike
                  Re:Re:Re:04/05/22 20:16:00 Russell Pearson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:04/05/22 20:19:00 Tom Pike

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