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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats
Posted by: Ed Saper
Date/Time: 02/05/22 23:37:00

There's a key assumption here that I hope you don't mind if I challenge - that economic activity requires an increase in traffic. 

From 1999 to 2009 London's economy grew 31.2% and population grew by 10.8%.

However, London traffic fell by 8.7%: 6.7% fewer miles driven on A Roads & motorways and 12.2% fewer miles on minor roads.

From 2009 to 2019 London's economy grew by 36% and population grew by 14%. 

However, there was much higher traffic growth of 21%: traffic on main roads increased by 1.4% and traffic on minor roads by 57%. 

It wouldn't surprise me if pollution on the main roads has stayed the same or fallen in that time as vehicles got cleaner due to technology and policies like the ULEZ. 

In these two periods of similar economic and population growth - traffic fell in the first and in the latest period it rose dramatically, largely driven by the 17.5% increase in miles driven by cars and taxis, but also an increase in Light Commercial Vehicles.

It is an assumption that traffic growth is a direct results of increased economic activity and thus if we adopt policies to reduce traffic then we won't be as wealthy.

In fact, increased traffic congestion from all these vehicles is harming economic growth - one estimate is that London drivers spent an average of 149 hours per year stuck in traffic, costing the local economy £4.9bn in 2019 - and that doesn't include the harm to health from polluted air. 

Cycle lanes won't solve the traffic problem on their own - in fact you may find that providing high quality cycling infrastructure induces demand for cycling and increases local economic activity rather than 1 cycle journey cancelling out 1 car journey as a zero sum modal shift. 

Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 08:53:00 Tom Pike
   Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 08:59:00 Janice Evans
   Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:20:00 Loraine Pemberton
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:40:00 Tom Pike
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:41:00 Paul Fisher
         Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:48:00 Tom Pike
         Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 09:58:00 Loraine Pemberton
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 10:40:00 Bruce Hammal
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 10:56:00 Maggie Dodge
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:06:00 Tom Pike
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:26:00 Peter Evans
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:28:00 Claire Moran
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:51:00 Peter Evans
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:04:00 Matthew Swain
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:08:00 Maggie Dodge
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 11:51:00 Loraine Pemberton
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:11:00 Peter Evans
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:19:00 Cecile Parfitt
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 12:35:00 Adrian Irving
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:44:00 Maggie Dodge
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:46:00 Paul Fisher
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 13:47:00 Maggie Dodge
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:16:00 Bruce Hammal
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:18:00 Bruce Hammal
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 18:17:00 Maggie Dodge
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:41:00 Robert Fish
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:38:00 Robert Fish
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:52:00 Robert Fish
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address29/04/22 14:55:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                 Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:09:00 Richard Cathcart
                                    Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:21:00 Steve Taylor
                                       Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 15:54:00 Steve Taylor
                                    Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 16:35:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                       Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 16:57:00 Robert Fish
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 17:11:00 Loraine Pemberton
                                             Dodgy stats29/04/22 18:06:00 Justin Stephenson
                                                Re:Dodgy stats30/04/22 10:14:00 Tom Pike
                                                   Re:Re:Dodgy stats30/04/22 10:39:00 Andrew Jones
                                                      Reply30/04/22 18:27:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Reply30/04/22 19:25:00 Andrew Jones
                                                            Re:Re:Reply01/05/22 00:39:00 Tom Pike
                                                   Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 21:40:00 Justin Stephenson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 23:19:00 Tom Pike
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats02/05/22 23:37:00 Ed Saper
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats03/05/22 10:13:00 Bill George
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dodgy stats03/05/22 11:50:00 Ed Saper
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:12:00 Robert Fish
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:26:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 18:40:00 Robert Fish
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Robert Fish29/04/22 20:00:00 Russell Pearson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 29/04/22 20:02:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 29/04/22 20:18:00 Robert Fish
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 19:08:00 Tom Pike
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypo 30/04/22 19:15:00 Russell Pearson
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 20:26:00 Steve Taylor
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hypocrite 30/04/22 20:53:00 Julian Pavey
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 07:07:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                        Reply01/05/22 08:49:00 John Hall
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 09:34:00 Tom Pike
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 10:34:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                              Reply01/05/22 11:47:00 John Hall
                                                                                 Re:Reply01/05/22 12:00:00 Maggie Dodge
                                                                                    Reply01/05/22 12:23:00 John Hall
                                                                                    Re:Re:Reply04/05/22 14:35:00 Philippa Bond
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs01/05/22 18:47:00 Tom Pike
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReLTNs02/05/22 22:54:00 Maggie Dodge
   Re:Pollution levels at you address04/05/22 13:56:00 Tim Garfoot
      Re:Re:Pollution levels at you address04/05/22 14:29:00 Steve Taylor
         Reply04/05/22 17:57:00 Tom Pike
            Re:04/05/22 19:47:00 Maggie Dodge
               Re:Re:04/05/22 20:10:00 Tom Pike
                  Re:Re:Re:04/05/22 20:16:00 Russell Pearson
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:04/05/22 20:19:00 Tom Pike

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