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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick
Posted by: Francis Rowe
Date/Time: 12/06/14 18:36:00

There seems to be a huge amount of disinformation about this issue with people very willing to believe hearsay and unsubstantiated evidence and quick to dismiss outright denial from people actually involved. The best coverage I have read of this issue was in the Guardian written by someone who amazingly enough seems to have taken the trouble to go to Birmingham.

Firstly, for Vanessa's benefit it should be pointed out that these schools are not faith schools and no concerted attempt is being made to turn them into exclusively Muslim schools. Up until a few years ago all of the were controlled by the LEA and where they have gained academy status they remain non-denominational.

The schools are in areas with a high Muslim population, in some cases they are the majority. They were historically poor performing schools but in the recent past they have seen a huge upsurge in results. The success of the local schools has been credited with a fall in crime and a significant drop in tension between the various communities simply because youths were coming out of the system with sufficient qualifications to get a job rather than join gangs.

Park View school was rated as outstanding by OFSTED and its results were way ahead of what could be expected given its intake which included a predominance of children from Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Somali backgrounds, the three worst performing ethnic groups in educational terms in England.

Although there is a majority of Muslim children at the school the head currently is a Sikh and, because of its results, it is highly oversubscribed. One thing most people agreed on is that the success that this school and others have had was partly down to a board of governors who were representative of the community.

There is a huge amount of distortion in the media about what is actually going on. For instance it was widely reported that Park View had introduced Islamic Friday prayers. The reason this was done was that some families were insisting that their children attend at the local mosque which required them to cross a busy road unsupervised. The school provided facilities for prayers on the premises but they were NOT compulsory, apparently hardly anyone attends.

As for the segregation of the sexes when a reporter asked why the boys and girls were having separate lessons for PE he was told that as the boys were doing rugby it surely would be inappropriate for the girls to join them but in the classroom they were taught together. Like any school the boys were often made to sit at the front of the class because they were less well behaved. The hard facts of the schools exam results completely undermine claims that girls are seen as less worthy of education.

One lost British value that seems to have got people agitated is the 'banning' of the tombola at school fund-raisers. It seems to me that if you are trying to raise money from a group of parents a significant proportion for whom gambling is an anathema then the tombola should have been crossed off the list along with a hog roast.

The problem that most people seem to have with this school is that the Governors and staff seem not to have entirely bought into the latest thinking on social issues. This isn't about Muslim values against British values, remember a significant proportion of the intake at these schools remains non-Muslim and they seem to be universally staunch supporters of staff and governors. It seems to me more like a clash between the socially progressive values which the majority of people in this country now hold and more socially conservative views which the majority of people in this country held twenty years ago but now only predominate in immigrant communities.

There is no credible evidence of any Islamist indoctrination at these schools and from what parents and governors have said there seems no reason to doubt that this would be staunchly resisted from the inside if it was to occur.

That's not to say there aren't some pretty unsavoury characters involved on both sides of this issue but we shouldn't let the out of context statements of some school governors determine what is best for children's education. After all we get governors of local schools coming on this forum and saying things which are pretty dotty and inflammatory and nobody is suggesting a unannounced OFSTED for them.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Trojan Horse11/05/14 11:42:00 Iftikhar Ahmad
   Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 14:07:00 Janet Norman
   Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 14:39:00 Oliver Gibb
      Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 14:54:00 Carl Wynne
   Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 14:42:00 Andy Pease
   An Open Letter to Iftikar Ahmad11/05/14 15:12:00 Richard Greenhough
   Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 17:01:00 Vanessa Smith
      Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 17:12:00 Andy Pease
         Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 17:35:00 Pete Mayes
            Re:public HEALTH warning....!11/05/14 17:45:00 Stuart Kerr
               Re:Re:public HEALTH warning....!11/05/14 18:44:00 Carl Wynne
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 17:51:00 Colin Jordan
               for background 11/05/14 18:44:00 Claudia Jachtmann
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 18:45:00 Nikki Howard
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse11/05/14 18:50:00 Anne England
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?11/05/14 18:57:00 Vanessa Smith
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 11:05:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 12:17:00 Vanessa Smith
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 12:25:00 Pete Mayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 12:39:00 Richard Greenhough
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 14:30:00 Vanessa Smith
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse or Muppet?12/05/14 14:48:00 Dan Murphy
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Has Iftikhar Ahmad  been banned?12/05/14 16:35:00 Nikki Howard
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Has Iftikhar Ahmad  been banned?12/05/14 17:21:00 Sam Hearn Cllr
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Has Iftikhar Ahmad  been banned?12/05/14 17:55:00 Richard Jennings
   'A Balanced View'13/05/14 08:57:00 Francis Rowe
      Re:'A Balanced View'13/05/14 09:29:00 Dan Murphy
         The good thing about evangelists13/05/14 10:30:00 Alastair Banton
         Re:Re:'A Balanced View'13/05/14 14:08:00 Francis Rowe
            Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'13/05/14 15:09:00 John Hickman
               Re:Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'14/05/14 08:32:00 Francis Rowe
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'14/05/14 08:44:00 Dan Murphy
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'14/05/14 13:19:00 Anita Blake
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'14/05/14 13:52:00 Dan Murphy
                           Come off it Dan Murphy.14/05/14 14:10:00 Felicity Caborn
                              Re:Come off it Dan Murphy.14/05/14 14:38:00 Dan Murphy
                                 Re:Re:Come off it Dan Murphy.15/05/14 06:43:00 Felicity Caborn
                                 Re:Re:Come off it Dan Murphy.13/06/14 20:14:00 Richard Laux
                  Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 09:19:00 Richard Greenhough
                     Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 10:10:00 Colin Jordan
                        Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 13:37:00 Pete Mayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 13:54:00 Dan Murphy
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 14:28:00 Will Watson
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 14:36:00 Pete Mayes
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 15:06:00 Dan Murphy
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 15:29:00 Will Watson
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 15:44:00 Dan Murphy
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 16:14:00 Will Watson
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 16:56:00 Greg Walker
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 17:01:00 Huw Burford-Taylor
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 17:14:00 Dan Murphy
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 17:10:00 Dan Murphy
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 17:29:00 Alan Clark
                                                   we are not talking about Religous Schools14/05/14 17:51:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                                   Alan Clarke14/05/14 22:54:00 Oliver Gibb
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 17:48:00 Will Watson
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 21:33:00 John Hickman
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Classical Allusion ?14/05/14 22:46:00 Oliver Gibb
                                       Christening?14/05/14 21:54:00 Oliver Gibb
                                          Re:Christening?14/05/14 21:59:00 John Hickman
                                             Re:Re:Christening?14/05/14 22:38:00 Oliver Gibb
                                                Re:Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 10:38:00 John Hickman
                                                   Daily mail???15/05/14 15:03:00 Oliver Gibb
                                          Re:Christening?15/05/14 05:36:00 Dan Murphy
                                             Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 09:21:00 Nick Mason
                                                Re:Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 09:31:00 Dan Murphy
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 10:18:00 Nick Mason
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 10:33:00 Dan Murphy
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Christening?15/05/14 10:38:00 Nick Mason
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:'A Balanced View'14/05/14 21:21:00 John Hickman
                     Oliver Gibb15/05/14 08:43:00 Paul Corcoran
                        Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 10:48:00 John Hickman
                           Re:Re:Indoctrination15/05/14 11:43:00 Colin Jordan
                              Re:Re:Re:Indoctrination15/05/14 12:14:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                        Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 12:40:00 Oliver Gibb
                           Re:Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 12:44:00 Pete Mayes
                              Re:Re:Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 17:35:00 Colin Jordan
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 17:44:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                    for Colin15/05/14 17:50:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                           Re:Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 22:15:00 John Hickman
                              Re:Re:Re:Oliver Gibb15/05/14 22:27:00 Nikki Howard
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Oliver Gibb16/05/14 07:47:00 Colin Jordan
                                    it worked Colin16/05/14 11:31:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                                       Re:it worked Colin16/05/14 11:33:00 Claudia Jachtmann
                           Re:Re:Oliver Gibb16/05/14 08:11:00 Paul Corcoran
                              Re:Re:Re:Oliver Gibb16/05/14 13:56:00 Colin Jordan
   Re:Trojan Horse07/06/14 19:38:00 Janine Jarvis
      Re:Re:Trojan Horse07/06/14 21:37:00 Julian Pavey
         Re:Re:Re:Trojan Horse07/06/14 21:49:00 Andy Pease
            Re:Re:winding up the spammers07/06/14 23:38:00 bobby osborne
               Re:Re:Re:winding up the spammers08/06/14 00:38:00 Nikki Howard
                  Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick08/06/14 12:41:00 Vanessa Smith
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick08/06/14 17:30:00 Alastair Banton
                        see this link12/06/14 08:18:00 Janine Jarvis
                           Re:see this link12/06/14 09:46:00 Andy Pease
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 09:47:00 Richard Greenhough
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 10:24:00 Vanessa Smith
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 10:29:00 Alastair Banton
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 10:30:00 Alastair Banton
                                 Possible double standards..?12/06/14 10:36:00 Keith Iddon
                                 Possible double standards..?12/06/14 10:36:00 Keith Iddon
                                    Re:Possible double standards..?12/06/14 14:06:00 Alan Clark
                                       Re:Re:Possible double standards..?12/06/14 16:29:00 Alastair Banton
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 12:37:00 Claire Moran
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 16:34:00 Michael Brown
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 16:40:00 Michael Brown
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 18:21:00 Richard Greenhough
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 18:25:00 Michael Brown
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 18:36:00 Francis Rowe
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick12/06/14 22:03:00 Claire Moran
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick13/06/14 00:48:00 Greg Walker
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick13/06/14 22:15:00 Pete Mayes
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Someone missed a trick13/06/14 10:17:00 Vanessa Smith

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