| Topic: | Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | |
| Posted by: | Huw Burford-Taylor | |
| Date/Time: | 04/01/19 14:56:00 |
| OK let's just remind ourselves of some of the promises given by the leave side shall we. We'll ignore the £350 mill a week for the NHS as that's an easy one. Howabout "we'll get a better deal that what we have at the moment?" "Leaving will be easy" "we hold all the cards" "they need us more than we need them" "the German car manufacturers/French wine manufacturers will ensure we get a good deal" "There will be no downside" etc etc etc. I could (and have) regurgitated these statements until the cows come home. So, we have a referendum won on narrow margins by blatant lying. Not only blatant lying, but electoral fraud as well, unequivocally established. If you believe in democracy surely a vote won via the use of lies and cheating should be invalid? So the premise of your opening statement is false. Let's move on to your next point. TM without question inherited, to use the parlance of the day a less than optimal situation. She then proceeded to do everything she could to make it worse. 48% of the electorate were called "citizens of nowhere", "remoaners" "saboteurs" EU citizens having lived and contributed to the UK for years if not decades were called "queue jumpers." Rather than seek consensus she pandered to the extreme right of her party and the tabloid press. She has been a divisive figure and quite frankly deserves every ounce of opprobrium heaped upon her head. What would I do? Apart from the glib answer of "not get into this mess in the first place" I have outlined this on other threads, but I would have done the following: Recognise that a 1.9% margin of victory on a society changing referendum is not a mandate to persue the most extreme course imaginable. Appoint a cross party body to formulate the best possible course of action consistent with both leaving the EU and causing the bare minimum amount of economic damage possible. Guarantee the rights of all resident EU citizens living in the UK in perpetuity from day one. When the cross party body had reported back with an acceptable framework trigger Article 50, once that was done negotiate honestly, transparently and in good faith, without grandstanding for the tabloid press. Sack any minister or member of the government who used pejorative terms to refer to either side in public. If the above had been done, if there had been a recognition that 52% does not equal 100, if a consensus had been sought, if the negotiations had been handled competently and in good faith, and if there hadn't been a catalogue of malicious incompetence from start to finish then you wouldn't have seen three quarters of a million people on the streets demanding a vote on the final deal. If the negotiations were being conducted in good faith there wouldn't be "a group of people who are determined to make life as difficult as possible for the UK" although incidentally if you're referring to the EU here, they are conducting the negotiations with a degree of competence that is of an order of magnitude so much more vast than our home-grown variety that's it's humiliating to witness and they are doing so to protect their interests, which is a) exactly what you would expect and b) largely the result of Tory ministers being duplicitous and unreliable. A prime example would be David Davis who, having signed up to a legally binding agreement in December '17 then *the next day* appeared on the Sunday Politics shows saying that they didn't have to abide by it. Paradoxically this degree of uselessness has made brexit more unlikely than less. Had it been pursued with a level of consensus and competence I think the overwhelming majority of the 48% would have shrugged, grumbled and got on with it, I know I would. It has been the rank stupidity and divisiveness which has really annoyed me, and galvanised the opposition movement. That, and the frankly disgusting language that has been used about EU citizens living here as well. |
| Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
| Stockpiling | 03/01/19 22:44:00 | Stewart Jones |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 07:43:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 07:45:00 | Stewart Jones |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 08:41:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:28:00 | Mark Evans |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:09:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:27:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:27:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:36:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 09:52:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 10:17:00 | Ken Munn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 10:20:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 10:32:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 10:50:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 10:58:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:01:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:04:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:08:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:10:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:24:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:28:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:34:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:10:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:34:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 15:34:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 12:14:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 13:24:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 16:41:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 18:31:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 18:51:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 23:45:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 16:25:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 23:44:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 23:46:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 14:01:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 14:20:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 15:03:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 14:56:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 15:58:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 16:04:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| A retraction. | 05/01/19 13:32:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:A retraction. | 05/01/19 14:00:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 13:16:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 15:40:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:29:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:31:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:39:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:57:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:44:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 11:57:00 | Paul Fisher |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:29:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:43:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:08:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:13:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:44:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 14:44:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 15:10:00 | Claire Moran |
| Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 13:01:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 16:05:00 | David Lesniak |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 16:21:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 20:18:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:13:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:49:00 | Bernard Allen |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:53:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 12:57:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:16:00 | Bernard Allen |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:20:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 13:34:00 | Andy Pease |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 19:33:00 | Claire Moran |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 19:54:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 04/01/19 20:09:00 | Julian Pavey |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 11:14:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 13:38:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 23:07:00 | T P Howell |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 05/01/19 23:56:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 00:04:00 | Julian Pavey |
| Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 17:58:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:04:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:09:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:33:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:07:00 | Robert Fish |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:52:00 | Loraine Pemberton |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 22:02:00 | Robert Fish |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 21:38:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 19:53:00 | Claire Moran |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 20:19:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 21:30:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 21:37:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 21:47:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 22:27:00 | T P Howell |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 22:42:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 22:54:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 23:57:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 08:39:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 10:48:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:08:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:16:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 23:14:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 23:38:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 23:42:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 09:14:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 06/01/19 23:32:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 07:31:00 | David Lesniak |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 09:18:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 10:11:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 10:34:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Indoor Plumbing | 07/01/19 10:48:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Indoor Plumbing | 07/01/19 10:59:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 12:01:00 | Adrian Irving |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 11:26:00 | Carl Wynne |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 12:09:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 12:27:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Queueing | 07/01/19 13:11:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Baggy Trousers | 07/01/19 13:06:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:12:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:14:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:25:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 13:38:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:32:00 | T P Howell |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:36:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 14:37:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 15:20:00 | Richard Greenhough |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 16:26:00 | James Roy |
| Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 16:27:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 17:48:00 | T P Howell |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 07/01/19 18:37:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 00:00:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 08:06:00 | David Lesniak |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 08:47:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 09:17:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 10:18:00 | Viv Griffiths |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 10:24:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 11:05:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 11:20:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 10:50:00 | John Whitworth |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 11:05:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 11:42:00 | Huw Burford-Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 16:22:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling | 08/01/19 17:33:00 | Philippa Bond |
| Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 16:27:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 16:43:00 | Carl Wynne |
| Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 17:08:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 17:51:00 | Kerry Chandler |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 20:35:00 | David Roberts |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 20:52:00 | Janice Evans |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 21:14:00 | Alan Clark |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 21:28:00 | David Roberts |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stockpiling referendum | 08/01/19 22:21:00 | Alan Clark |