Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby
Posted by: Jeremy Parkinson
Date/Time: 14/11/24 09:54:00

It alarms me the way that cases like this always lead to a rush to judgement by people who clearly haven't read beyond the headlines. Some of the displays of bigotry at least show us who in our community would have been part of a pitchfork mob in a bygone age.

Just to be clear this is a shocking case but the details are not new. Private Eye has been reporting on Smyth and the Iwerne camps and the flawed response of the church authorities to it for many years.  Clearly there has been a massive failure in the way his activities were allowed to continue for decades but simplistic finger pointing isn't going to help anyone.

These sort of cases are always extremely sensitive and complicated and it is very easy to judge harshly the people who were having to make decisions relating to them.

There doesn't seem  to have been any concerted attempt to cover up Smyth's activities. He was reported to the police five times by members of the church authorities. The distinction being made that these weren't formal reports is a nonsense. The police or CPS are obliged to investigate any crime they were made aware of.

Smyth's crimes in the UK mainly occurred in the last century when a view prevailed that it could be more harmful to a victim of abuse to go through the ordeal of a trial. Survivors of Smyth may feel this was an error and they are probably right as we have more understanding now of the pathology of abusers and the high chance of them being repeat offenders.

However, right up to the nineties it was standard operating practice not just in the church but also in schools, council care homes, the scouting movement and virtually every organisation with the care of children not to bring all cases of abuse to trial.

It may be claimed that the CofE obliged victims to be quiet about what was happening to protect its reputation but this is clearly false. The victims in England went to schools such as Winchester and Eton and would have had families who has agency in the matter. It has to be assumed that they could have chosen a different response if they wished.

It can't be denied that Welby's personal involvement in this complicates the matter. As a schoolboy he may have heard stories of Smyth's activities. In an age where corporal punishment was considered a legitimate form of chastisement, many who were subject to it grew to hate their teachers and lurid stories of abuse were shared outside the classroom only a portion of which were likely to be true. If Welby was ever told about Smyth it may have been among a host of similar reports which made him doubt them all. Only he would know the truth.

There can be no doubt that Smyth's victims were failed but, whereas some individuals could have acted more effectively, the overarching problem was the way cases like this were handled in all institutions. We may congratulate ourselves that we are better at dealing with this problem now, and we probably are, but it is almost inevitable that scandals will  emerge in which children were found to be subject to abuse right now. There are a lot of reasons to be concerned about children in care for instance.

A witch hunt against people who decades ago made bad choices when faced with extremely difficult decision operates off the very dangerous assumption that these problems are behind us.

Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Justin Welby12/11/24 18:27:00 Nicholas Beard
   Re:Justin Welby12/11/24 18:32:00 Russell Pearson
   Re:Justin Welby12/11/24 19:21:00 N V Brooks
      Re:Re:Justin Welby12/11/24 19:31:00 Julian Pavey
         Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby12/11/24 20:38:00 Keith Iddon
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 00:02:00 Michael Brown
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 06:19:00 Nicholas Beard
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 08:03:00 Steve Taylor
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 08:20:00 Alastair Banton
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 08:45:00 Steve Taylor
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 12:13:00 Steve Taylor
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby22/12/24 13:26:00 V Killick
                  God-botherers13/11/24 16:14:00 Davey Harris
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 12:05:00 Janice Evans
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 14:48:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 15:00:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/11/24 16:35:00 Roger Talbot
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby14/11/24 09:54:00 Jeremy Parkinson
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby14/11/24 10:45:00 Janice Evans
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby14/11/24 12:25:00 N V Brooks
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby14/11/24 12:52:00 Richard Greenhough
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby14/11/24 13:27:00 N V Brooks
                                          The Blackmail Of Powerful People14/11/24 15:06:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                                             Re:The Blackmail Of Powerful People14/11/24 15:11:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                                                Re:Re:The Blackmail Of Powerful People14/11/24 16:01:00 Michael Brown
                                                   under pressure19/11/24 15:16:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                                                      Re:under pressure19/11/24 17:51:00 Keith Iddon
                                                         Re:Re:under pressure22/11/24 14:58:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                                                            Re:Re:Re:under pressure23/11/24 18:30:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                                                               Shoot the messenger! Keep it quiet!23/11/24 21:07:00 Jim Lawes
                                                                  Re:Shoot the messenger! Keep it quiet!24/11/24 09:13:00 Nicholas Beard
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:under pressure24/11/24 13:46:00 Joe Conneely
   Re:Justin Welby24/11/24 11:33:00 Robert Shaw
      Re:Re:Justin Welby24/11/24 15:49:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
         Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby24/11/24 18:20:00 Robert Fish
            Conclave - what timing !30/11/24 14:53:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
               Re:Conclave - what timing !30/11/24 14:56:00 N V Brooks
   Re:Justin Welby01/12/24 18:29:00 Nicholas Beard
      Re:Re:Justin Welby01/12/24 19:52:00 Steve Taylor
         Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby01/12/24 19:55:00 N V Brooks
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby01/12/24 21:44:00 Steve Taylor
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby02/12/24 00:25:00 N V Brooks
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby05/12/24 19:57:00 Steve Taylor
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby05/12/24 20:24:00 Nicholas Beard
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby05/12/24 21:17:00 N V Brooks
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby06/12/24 18:05:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                            The Pope12/12/24 14:19:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby12/12/24 16:51:00 Nicholas Beard
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby12/12/24 17:58:00 Steve Taylor
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 12:55:00 Sam Hearn
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 15:38:00 James Roy
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 15:57:00 Alastair Banton
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 18:45:00 Steve Taylor
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 18:53:00 Sam Hearn
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby13/12/24 19:25:00 Alastair Banton
   Re:Justin Welby16/12/24 07:02:00 Nicholas Beard
      Re:Re:Justin Welby17/12/24 09:08:00 Steve Taylor
         Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby17/12/24 14:47:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby17/12/24 15:43:00 N V Brooks
                Calvin Robinson17/12/24 16:16:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                  'Suffer the little children...'17/12/24 16:23:00 Keith Iddon
                     Re:'Suffer the little children...'17/12/24 18:23:00 Nicholas Beard
                        Re:Re:'Suffer the little children...'17/12/24 19:53:00 Janice Evans
                        Re:Re:'Suffer the little children...'17/12/24 19:54:00 Steve Taylor
                        Re:Re:'Suffer the little children...'17/12/24 20:24:00 N V Brooks
                  Re: Calvin Robinson17/12/24 20:22:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re: Calvin Robinson17/12/24 20:27:00 N V Brooks
                        Re:Re:Re: Calvin Robinson17/12/24 20:58:00 Keith Iddon
                           Re:Re:Re:Re: Calvin Robinson17/12/24 21:00:00 Keith Iddon
                        Re:Re:Re: Calvin Robinson18/12/24 22:34:00 Brian Coyle
                           Re:Re:Re:Re: Calvin Robinson19/12/24 16:37:00 Anna Kirkpatrick
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:  Disgraced Welby - donation rejected 20/12/24 20:03:00 Steve Taylor
   Re:Justin Welby22/12/24 08:29:00 Robert Shaw
      Re:Re:Justin Welby22/12/24 10:29:00 N V Brooks
         Re:Re:Re:Justin Welby22/12/24 15:36:00 Steve Taylor

Forum Home