Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:OJEU notice
Posted by: Thomas Barry
Date/Time: 06/01/14 13:39:00

"- they've already done it once, so they should be able to move faster this time,"

They may have done it once, but they ballsed it up, as I'm sure you agree, although if they haven't spent five or six months preparing for retendering I'm a Dutchman - you can't write a whole new specification between the 19th December and 4th January.  If you look back to 2011 they explicitly mentioned the two year period as evidence of why they'd done their homework and got it right this time...

It's not the same this time around as the timescale is pushing them to a much less technologically risky solution, hence all the stuff about 'must be proven and not need any R&D' - there is only one available solution that really fits that in an LU context, which is SELTRAC, and which any SSL award could see the team move smartly onto in December 2014 after the Northern completes.  However, SELTRAC uses a wired system rather than a radio based one, with two wires between the tracks.  TfL have previously been rather against wiggly wires for new deployments and would have to do a bit of rowing back.

Sadly DTG-R isn't in the running as Siemens, having taken over/eliminated a competitor with the Invensys purchase, are pushing their Trainguard system instead, which has already been selected as the Crossrail central tunnel system and is used in Paris and New York's automated metro schemes.  I'd be surprised if that wasn't a strong contender too - it uses TfL's preferred radio communications rather than wiggly wires, but would need to be installed by the same people as are simultaneously doing Crossrail which might be a stretch - Crossrail is much smaller in terms of line length but if anything even more politically sensitive, and jeopardising the timescales there by giving too much work to a German company* might be a consideration.  Mind you, Siemens are an effing large company.

So I reckon it'll be Thales or Siemens, but a parallel Trainguard MT system in association with the Crossrail contract.

Going back to the original TG stop story, there's a forthcoming London Reconnections story which is rather eye-opening about what TfL might be planning for the Piccadilly upgrade:
1) New trains with shorter carriages, air conditioning, low energy use, walk through car ends and wider accommodation, with no separate cabs (although there has to be a trained driver on board as with DLR, they would drive from a normally hidden panel when necessary)
2) Ealing Broadway District Line branch taken over by Piccadilly with a doubling of service through Gunnersbury
3) Chiswick Park platforms moved onto the Gunnersbury branch (I've looked and it's bloody difficult to see how)
4) All day TG stop required, apart from anything else, to replace TG-Ealing Broadway services, which is the good news - they can't wriggle out of it any more

That ends up with a completely separate Piccadilly and District west of Hammersmith.  Obviously this is a 2020+ option, but there's some evidence that's what's being planned - it's driven by the inability to mix automated Piccadilly trains with District Line trains between Acton Town and Ealing Common, meaning the line has to be one or the other.

* Note: I don't give a monkey's where they'e from, but some idiots do.  Siemens employ 14k people in the UK anyway and have been working on rail projects here for over a century.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 12:09:00 Thomas Barry
   Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:10:00 Guy Lambert
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:29:00 Tim Henderson
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:35:00 Richard Jennings
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:56:00 Thomas Barry
         Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:02:00 C Wynne
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:07:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:09:00 C Wynne
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop01/01/14 23:57:00 Iain Muir
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop02/01/14 00:43:00 Jim Lawes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop02/01/14 08:51:00 Thomas Barry
                     TfL upgrade fiasco update02/01/14 08:56:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update03/01/14 16:27:00 Paul Corcoran
                           Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update03/01/14 17:09:00 Thomas Barry
                              Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 09:10:00 Anthony Letterese
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 10:40:00 Richard Greenhough
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 15:03:00 Francis Rowe
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 16:13:00 Guy Lambert
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 16:36:00 Jonathan Bingham
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 18:18:00 Thomas Barry
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update06/01/14 09:28:00 Francis Rowe
                                       OJEU notice04/01/14 17:54:00 Thomas Barry
                                          Re:OJEU notice04/01/14 22:09:00 Richard Jennings
                                             Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 11:30:00 Patrick ONeill
                                             Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 13:39:00 Thomas Barry
                                                Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 14:16:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 14:37:00 Thomas Barry
                                                      Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?06/01/14 17:06:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 09:21:00 Paul Pryce
                                                            Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 10:10:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 10:56:00 Tom Pike
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 11:28:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 13:30:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 11:40:00 Jeff Gear
                                                            Business Park Bridge07/01/14 12:05:00 Adam Bradley
                                                               Re:Business Park Bridge07/01/14 23:25:00 Jeff Gear
                                                                  Re:Re:Business Park Bridge08/01/14 15:09:00 Adam Bradley
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge08/01/14 15:32:00 Jeff Gear
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 14:28:00 Andy Brown
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 15:35:00 Adam Bradley
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 15:53:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 15:35:00 Richard Jennings
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 16:51:00 Thomas Barry
                                                      Local Conservatives confirm there is no change07/01/14 11:42:00 Patrick Barr
                                                         Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 13:11:00 Thomas Barry
                                                            Re:Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 13:58:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                               Re:Re:Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 15:20:00 Thomas Barry
                                                         The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 14:14:00 Patrick Barr
                                                            Re:The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 14:56:00 Will Watson
                                                               Re:Re:The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 16:10:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                  Specifics please07/01/14 19:26:00 Francis Rowe
                                                                     Re:Specifics please07/01/14 23:59:00 Richard Cathcart
                                                                        Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 09:05:00 Paul Corcoran
                                                                     Re:Specifics please08/01/14 09:17:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                        Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 13:58:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 15:49:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 16:00:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 16:14:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 17:00:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 17:09:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 19:07:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 08:13:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 09:49:00 Tom Pike
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 10:29:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 11:08:00 Tom Pike
                                                                     Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 12:15:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                        Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 12:55:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                           Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 17:07:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades24/04/15 12:47:00 Tony Buchanan
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades24/04/15 15:03:00 Richard Greenhough
   Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop23/04/15 12:27:00 R Atterwill
      Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 10:19:00 Andrew OSullivan
         Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 11:27:00 Thomas Barry
            Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 11:52:00 Andrew OSullivan
               Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 12:50:00 Michael Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 18:39:00 Tony Buchanan
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:17:00 Anita Blake
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:28:00 Richard Jennings
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:48:00 Thomas Barry
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 10:21:00 R Atterwill
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:29:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 09:58:00 Francis Rowe
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:15:00 Pete Mayes
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:54:00 David McLoughlin
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:03:00 Francis Rowe
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:34:00 Pete Mayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:59:00 Richard Jennings
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:16:00 Francis Rowe
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 09:07:00 Paul Pryce
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 11:02:00 Michael Robinson
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 11:20:00 Michael Robinson
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 12:24:00 Paul Pryce
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 13:40:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 15:46:00 Paul Pryce
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 17:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 20:09:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 20:46:00 Tom Pike
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 08:55:00 Francis Rowe
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:20:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:37:00 Thomas Barry
                                                               Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 11:24:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                                  Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 12:20:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                     Re:Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 12:39:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                  Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 13:20:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:28:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:42:00 Michael Robinson
                                          'Forced' my backside28/04/15 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                             District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 11:41:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 12:29:00 Ken Munn
                                                   Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 13:05:00 Michael Robinson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 14:03:00 Ken Munn
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 16:58:00 Thomas Barry

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