Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades
Posted by: Thomas Barry
Date/Time: 23/04/15 17:07:00

"Basically TfL selected the cheapest product from a supplier who said they could meet the dates, but didn't do sufficient technical due diligence if it would actually work in London. Too much bean counting, not enough engineering"

I read that too, and it's highly interesting.  The political background was that demands from City Hall were for a cheap as possible system that could be installed without weekend closures.  Bombardier's bid claimed to meet this by offering an off the shelf product (used in Madrid) that wouldn't need extensive development and with a record of being installed without closures.

This was not only not checked to see if it was true (it wasn't) but the low tender price it allowed distorted the weighting system (which was flawed/warped to prioritise cost over technical matters) enough to overrule basic 'will it work?' engineering considerations, with the consequences we see today.  Naturally they are going to have to pay the only remaining company that can do the job whatever they ask, and rather remarkably no one has apparently been held responsible and the same people are still in the same jobs.  Bombardier and the Madrid metro had actually taken certain high ranking TfL suits out to see their system in action, which is interesting:

http://www.metromadrid.es/en/comunicacion/prensa/2012/May/noticia8.html

The KPMG report is here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/fpc-20140717-part-1-item10-sup-atc-lessons-learnt.pdf

The original PR from TfL is instructive here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2011/june/london-underground-awards-major-signalling-contract

and includes this hostage to fortune : 'The new contract and the efficiencies it will deliver means Transport for London will save hundreds of millions of pounds, now and in future, on the original PPP solution'.

Yeah, right.  I'm reading the full article now - TfL and Bombardier knew three years ago that 2018 as a date wasn't going to happen.  I recall as recently as January TfL posters boasting that the Tube upgrade was 'on schedule'.  I really don't like being lied to by public servants.


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 12:09:00 Thomas Barry
   Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:10:00 Guy Lambert
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:29:00 Tim Henderson
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:35:00 Richard Jennings
      Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 14:56:00 Thomas Barry
         Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:02:00 C Wynne
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:07:00 Thomas Barry
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop31/12/13 16:09:00 C Wynne
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop01/01/14 23:57:00 Iain Muir
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop02/01/14 00:43:00 Jim Lawes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop02/01/14 08:51:00 Thomas Barry
                     TfL upgrade fiasco update02/01/14 08:56:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update03/01/14 16:27:00 Paul Corcoran
                           Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update03/01/14 17:09:00 Thomas Barry
                              Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 09:10:00 Anthony Letterese
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 10:40:00 Richard Greenhough
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 15:03:00 Francis Rowe
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 16:13:00 Guy Lambert
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 16:36:00 Jonathan Bingham
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update04/01/14 18:18:00 Thomas Barry
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:TfL upgrade fiasco update06/01/14 09:28:00 Francis Rowe
                                       OJEU notice04/01/14 17:54:00 Thomas Barry
                                          Re:OJEU notice04/01/14 22:09:00 Richard Jennings
                                             Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 11:30:00 Patrick ONeill
                                             Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 13:39:00 Thomas Barry
                                                Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 14:16:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 14:37:00 Thomas Barry
                                                      Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?06/01/14 17:06:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 09:21:00 Paul Pryce
                                                            Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 10:10:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 10:56:00 Tom Pike
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 11:28:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 13:30:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Piccadilly stop at Chiswick Park?07/01/14 11:40:00 Jeff Gear
                                                            Business Park Bridge07/01/14 12:05:00 Adam Bradley
                                                               Re:Business Park Bridge07/01/14 23:25:00 Jeff Gear
                                                                  Re:Re:Business Park Bridge08/01/14 15:09:00 Adam Bradley
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge08/01/14 15:32:00 Jeff Gear
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 14:28:00 Andy Brown
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 15:35:00 Adam Bradley
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Business Park Bridge30/09/16 15:53:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 15:35:00 Richard Jennings
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:OJEU notice06/01/14 16:51:00 Thomas Barry
                                                      Local Conservatives confirm there is no change07/01/14 11:42:00 Patrick Barr
                                                         Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 13:11:00 Thomas Barry
                                                            Re:Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 13:58:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                               Re:Re:Local Conservatives confirm there is a vast bucket of spin07/01/14 15:20:00 Thomas Barry
                                                         The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 14:14:00 Patrick Barr
                                                            Re:The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 14:56:00 Will Watson
                                                               Re:Re:The Mayor of London's office have confirmed there is no change07/01/14 16:10:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                  Specifics please07/01/14 19:26:00 Francis Rowe
                                                                     Re:Specifics please07/01/14 23:59:00 Richard Cathcart
                                                                        Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 09:05:00 Paul Corcoran
                                                                     Re:Specifics please08/01/14 09:17:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                        Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 13:58:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 15:49:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 16:00:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 16:14:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 17:00:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 17:09:00 Patrick ONeill
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please08/01/14 19:07:00 Tom Pike
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 08:13:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 09:49:00 Tom Pike
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 10:29:00 Paul Pryce
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Specifics please09/01/14 11:08:00 Tom Pike
                                                                     Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 12:15:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                        Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 12:55:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                           Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades23/04/15 17:07:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades24/04/15 12:47:00 Tony Buchanan
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Update on the delayed District/Piccadilly upgrades24/04/15 15:03:00 Richard Greenhough
   Re:Bad news for Turnham Green Piccadilly stop23/04/15 12:27:00 R Atterwill
      Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 10:19:00 Andrew OSullivan
         Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 11:27:00 Thomas Barry
            Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 11:52:00 Andrew OSullivan
               Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 12:50:00 Michael Robinson
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus24/04/15 18:39:00 Tony Buchanan
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:17:00 Anita Blake
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:28:00 Richard Jennings
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:48:00 Thomas Barry
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 10:21:00 R Atterwill
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus25/04/15 09:29:00 Thomas Barry
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 09:58:00 Francis Rowe
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:15:00 Pete Mayes
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:54:00 David McLoughlin
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:03:00 Francis Rowe
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:34:00 Pete Mayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 10:59:00 Richard Jennings
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus27/04/15 11:16:00 Francis Rowe
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 09:07:00 Paul Pryce
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 11:02:00 Michael Robinson
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 11:20:00 Michael Robinson
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 12:24:00 Paul Pryce
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 13:40:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 15:46:00 Paul Pryce
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 17:04:00 Michael Robinson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 20:09:00 Thomas Barry
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus28/04/15 20:46:00 Tom Pike
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 08:55:00 Francis Rowe
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:20:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:37:00 Thomas Barry
                                                               Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 11:24:00 Andrew OSullivan
                                                                  Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 12:20:00 Michael Robinson
                                                                     Re:Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 12:39:00 Thomas Barry
                                                                  Re:Piccadilly trains held at Acton Town29/04/15 13:20:00 Richard Greenhough
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:28:00 Tom Pike
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Gunnersbury Overcrowding and the Sky Shuttle Bus29/04/15 09:42:00 Michael Robinson
                                          'Forced' my backside28/04/15 15:30:00 Thomas Barry
                                             District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 11:41:00 Michael Robinson
                                                Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 12:29:00 Ken Munn
                                                   Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 13:05:00 Michael Robinson
                                                      Re:Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 14:03:00 Ken Munn
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:District line contract awarded, scheduled for completion in 202303/08/15 16:58:00 Thomas Barry

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